Astoria Planning Commission
Meeting – February 27, 2018
Youtube Auto-Generated Transcript – see  https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU 

Call to Order, Roll Call, Minutes
Public Hearings
Variance Request (V17-04) Cannery Loft Condominium
Reports of Officers
Break (5-minutes)
Work Session – Proposed code language for emergency shelters

Call to Order, Roll Call, Minutes
hour:minute:second
https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU?t=18 
0:00:18	good evening
0:00:19	and welcome to the astoria planning
0:00:21	commission for february 27
0:00:23	2018 i'd like to call a meeting to order
0:00:29	mr morgan can we have a roll call please
0:00:33	commissioner henry here
0:00:36	uh vice president eason mr mitchell
0:00:40	here president it's patrick here
0:00:43	mr moore here commissioner cameron levy
0:00:46	here and commissioner here
0:00:52	okay has every everyone read the minutes
0:01:01	[Music]
0:01:03	it doesn't look like we have any
0:01:06	you just did that to me you just did
0:01:10	that
0:01:10	yes
Public Hearings
https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU?t=74 
0:01:14	okay the planning commission will handle
0:01:17	several matters tonight with a public
0:01:18	hearing
0:01:19	the order i am going to follow for each
0:01:21	public hearing is outlined in a handout
0:01:23	called procedures for conduct of public
0:01:25	hearings available from staff
0:01:28	scheduled public hearings are itemized
0:01:29	on the agenda in each case i will
0:01:31	identify the subject
0:01:32	announced when the public hearing is
0:01:34	open and ask anyone interested to
0:01:36	testify regarding the matter
0:01:39	and to clarify we i believe we only have
0:01:40	one public hearing this evening
0:01:43	if you wish to speak please be sure to
0:01:45	sign the to sign the
0:01:47	hearing sign in sheet located on the
0:01:49	side tables
0:01:51	you should address your remarks to
0:01:52	whether or not the application in
0:01:53	question meets the necessary criteria
0:01:56	the significant criteria that apply to
0:01:58	each issue are listed on the staff
0:02:00	report which staff has available
0:02:02	if you fail to raise an issue in person
0:02:04	or by letter to the australia planning
0:02:06	commission or city council an appeal of
0:02:08	that issue would not be permitted
Variance Request (V17-04) Cannery Loft Condominium
https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU?t=131 
0:02:11	tonight's first public hearing is
0:02:14	variance request v17-04
0:02:17	by dr ted forkham to apply the
0:02:19	development code
0:02:20	modification of parking space
0:02:22	requirements
0:02:24	for cannery loft condominium building a
0:02:26	for the required potential 18 off street
0:02:29	parking spaces
0:02:30	to provide 11 spaces on-site and seven
0:02:33	spaces within the right-of-way for
0:02:35	potential future
0:02:36	and existing uses within the ground
0:02:38	floor units
0:02:39	and for a partial reduction in the
0:02:40	number of spaces required for the
0:02:42	existing personal service
0:02:44	establishment slash spa from the
0:02:46	required one space per client
0:02:48	chair table the request is also
0:02:51	available
0:02:52	i'm sorry the request is also to apply
0:02:54	the modification of parking space
0:02:55	requirements for cannery loft
0:02:57	condominium
0:02:58	condominium building b for the required
0:03:00	potential of 18
0:03:02	off street parking spaces to provide 13
0:03:04	spaces
0:03:05	on site and five spaces within the
0:03:08	right-of-way for potential future and
0:03:10	existing uses
0:03:11	within the ground floor units the
0:03:13	buildings are located in the s2a
0:03:16	zone does anyone object to the
0:03:18	jurisdiction of the australia planning
0:03:20	commission to hear this matter at this
0:03:21	time
0:03:25	does any member of the australia
0:03:26	planning commission feel he or she has a
0:03:28	conflict of interest
0:03:29	or any ex parte contacts to declare
0:03:33	[Music]
0:03:36	could we have a presentation of the
0:03:37	staff report and recommendation
0:03:40	thank you mr president
0:03:44	as you said this is uh the applicant is
0:03:46	dr ted forkham who
0:03:48	owns the commercial spaces
0:03:51	under each of the uh the
0:03:54	condominium buildings building a both
0:03:56	building a and building b
0:04:00	the parking requirements that that are
0:04:03	required for
0:04:04	for those activities in that s2a zone
0:04:08	are on page two
0:04:11	and i should forgive me but
0:04:14	this this uh report was prepared by
0:04:17	rosemary johnson who couldn't
0:04:19	make his denial so i'm i'm the
0:04:23	i'm the messenger
0:04:24	[Music]
0:04:27	so the uh the request for the variance
0:04:29	is for two separate buildings within
0:04:31	within the development
0:04:32	uh each building has its own site and
0:04:36	separate
0:04:36	uh development possibilities
0:04:40	the uh the applicant uh has chosen to
0:04:43	calculate the gross floor error
0:04:45	based on on the inclusion of one hallway
0:04:48	and the restroom on the ground floor
0:04:50	so in ground in building a there's 6 953
0:04:54	square feet
0:04:56	and in building b there's 7 534 square
0:04:59	feet
0:05:00	building a is is about it's an acre
0:05:03	one 1.0 acre inside the building b site
0:05:06	is
0:05:07	slightly larger 1.2 um
0:05:11	i i don't i'll kind of gloss over the
0:05:14	the history
0:05:14	of the of the site and the development
0:05:18	but
0:05:18	basically there was a zone change which
0:05:23	enabled various uses
0:05:26	non-water related water dependent uses
0:05:29	to be
0:05:30	permitted in the in the ground floor
0:05:33	commercial area
0:05:36	i think everyone is familiar with the
0:05:37	neighborhood um
0:05:40	the hampton inns to the is to the west
0:05:43	the uh pier 39
0:05:47	is is north over the water there's a
0:05:51	business park um to the to the east
0:05:55	and an undeveloped lot which is referred
0:05:58	to as lot
0:05:58	c is is
0:06:01	[Music]
0:06:02	to the uh to the east um
0:06:07	public notes was mailed to all property
0:06:09	owners including all of the
0:06:11	the condominium owners
0:06:14	in early february findings of fact
0:06:20	all all of those uses are are permitted
0:06:23	uh
0:06:23	outright under section 2705
0:06:28	under 2710 shows the the
0:06:31	commercial or the conditional uses the
0:06:34	uses that
0:06:35	are being proposed by the applicant or
0:06:37	are allowed as
0:06:40	conditionals some are outright
0:06:43	some are conditional so the
0:06:48	under uh
0:06:51	the applicant is interested in in
0:06:54	marketing the property
0:06:56	and the uh the reason for the variance
0:06:58	is that
0:06:59	the the
0:07:02	[Music]
0:07:04	the contention is that the standards as
0:07:07	has written are not are too restrictive
0:07:10	for the uses that are proposed
0:07:14	um
0:07:17	[Music]
0:07:20	sorry i'll just keep i'm going to gloss
0:07:22	over most of the material i'm assuming
0:07:24	that
0:07:25	the commission has read the report um
0:07:30	the uh the applicant has prepared um
0:07:33	or has have prepared a parking
0:07:36	[Music]
0:07:38	study party parking technical memorandum
0:07:41	and that is summarized in the
0:07:44	in the report including
0:07:48	the other the alternatives for for other
0:07:51	modes of transportation
0:07:54	there was an issue concerning the
0:07:58	lack of bicycle parking and
0:08:01	that has been addressed in the in the
0:08:05	conditions
0:08:06	the applicant has agreed to
0:08:09	include bicycle parking facilities
0:08:14	both in indoor indoors
0:08:17	covered in and out on the uh on the
0:08:20	street
0:08:23	just skipping to the conclusion
0:08:30	the recommendation uh the request meets
0:08:32	all of our
0:08:33	review criteria the staff recommends
0:08:35	approval of the request
0:08:38	um number one
0:08:40	educational establishments and daycares
0:08:43	are not allowed outright
0:08:45	and are not included as approved uses uh
0:08:48	the permit
0:08:48	is valid beyond the two-year maximum
0:08:52	in order for for uh mr dr porghum to
0:08:56	uh to market the property
0:08:59	um each unit for single use and combine
0:09:03	units
0:09:03	separately subject to the fractional
0:09:05	measurement requirements
0:09:07	eating and drinking personal services
0:09:10	shall be limited to 35 of the gross
0:09:13	floor area
0:09:16	prior to any unit being occupied that
0:09:18	you should be reviewed by the planning
0:09:19	department to
0:09:20	to assure the required parking is
0:09:22	available
0:09:23	um the admin will work with the city and
0:09:27	the
0:09:27	and the uh hoa to locate the biking park
0:09:31	by parking as as
0:09:34	as mentioned um the applicant shall work
0:09:38	with the planner to determine
0:09:39	the long-term long-term parking space is
0:09:42	possible
0:09:43	um long-term would be in one of the many
0:09:47	storage
0:09:48	units that are within the building um
0:09:51	the applicants will work with the hoa to
0:09:52	relocate and identify the required
0:09:54	handicap accessible space actually that
0:09:56	that has been completed and any
0:09:59	significant changes will be
0:10:01	uh reviewed by the planning commission
0:10:05	so that's the uh that's that's a summary
0:10:08	of the report
0:10:09	if we answer any questions thank you mr
0:10:12	morgan
0:10:13	are there any questions for staff
0:10:19	okay seeing none
0:10:23	public testimony is now open if you wish
0:10:25	to speak please come to the podium state
0:10:27	your name and address for the record
0:10:29	and is there an application or i'm sorry
0:10:31	a presentation by the applicant
0:10:34	[Music]
0:10:39	hello commissioners i'm dr ted corkum uh
0:10:42	as you're
0:10:42	aware i'm the owner for the commercial
0:10:45	units at
0:10:46	3 9 3 0 and 3990 abbey lane
0:10:51	thank you for your time this evening and
0:10:53	i know there's kind of a thick package
0:10:54	to go through and i appreciate that
0:10:56	dr forkham would you like to give an
0:10:57	address besides the
0:10:59	two properties you've just stated uh and
0:11:02	i also uh
0:11:03	owned uh uh 399
0:11:06	0 b 308
0:11:10	great thank you i think i think we need
0:11:11	your mailing address for the record
0:11:14	oh mailie my mailing address is 10139
0:11:17	northwest skyline heights drive
0:11:19	portland oregon 97229
0:11:22	thank you dr falcon thank you
0:11:27	so first of all i appreciate your time
0:11:29	up here again i know it's kind of a
0:11:31	thick pack of them all through
0:11:32	i started this process over 18 months
0:11:34	ago so it's kind of a
0:11:36	been a long and expensive process for me
0:11:38	the bottom line is i think that you can
0:11:39	see on this screens of google maps that
0:11:42	there's plenty of parking available at
0:11:43	the cannery
0:11:45	cannery lofts i can tell that's a fairly
0:11:47	recent image from the google maps just
0:11:49	based on the color of
0:11:50	our arc dust it's amazing how well it
0:11:51	shows up
0:11:54	over the last four years i've done
0:11:57	studies of what park
0:11:58	occupancy has been and it's averaged
0:12:01	just shy of 25
0:12:02	of the space occupancy
0:12:07	and so far i don't see any reason for
0:12:08	this to change the residential units are
0:12:11	fully owned
0:12:12	and the commercial units are 65 occupied
0:12:15	at this time
0:12:16	35 percent of the spaces have been
0:12:19	vacant since
0:12:20	2007 so in many of the spaces i simply
0:12:24	can't lease because of available parking
0:12:28	when the space complex was rezoned from
0:12:31	general industrial to s2a
0:12:33	i instigated that process to try to
0:12:35	create more favorable
0:12:37	businesses in a mixed use complex as you
0:12:40	can imagine
0:12:41	fish processing may not be the ideal
0:12:44	neighbor
0:12:45	if you're living living close by
0:12:47	especially if you're living right above
0:12:49	it
0:12:49	so my goal and vision was to try to make
0:12:52	it a more harmonious
0:12:53	business space with residential spaces
0:12:57	admittedly i didn't fully understand the
0:13:00	parking limitations of the city
0:13:04	at the time of the rezoning i
0:13:05	misinterpreted the city's calculations
0:13:08	on how parking was was uh stated
0:13:13	most s2a businesses use more space than
0:13:17	general industrial as you can imagine a
0:13:20	warehouse
0:13:22	may have less parking than say an office
0:13:24	space
0:13:27	so i'm looking for something that would
0:13:28	accommodate that and in true
0:13:30	truth my i built out an office a year
0:13:33	and a half ago with the intentions of
0:13:35	coming here and opening up for practice
0:13:36	and i haven't been able to do that
0:13:39	simply because there's not enough
0:13:40	parking
0:13:40	and in a room i've taken another job but
0:13:43	still have
0:13:44	hopes to come out here and practice i
0:13:46	love it out here
0:13:47	oh ideally that's where i kind of want
0:13:49	to hang my hat uh
0:13:51	i've been here you know on the on the
0:13:53	coast for
0:13:55	about 17 years i think 17 years now
0:14:00	and as a result of the parking issues
0:14:01	i've had to turn away really good
0:14:02	businesses that would have been
0:14:04	great assets to the city of astoria
0:14:07	um one that i still kind of regret was a
0:14:11	a food channel based
0:14:14	company and so they would have brought
0:14:16	with them a lot of media which
0:14:17	is kind of missed opportunity
0:14:21	so i i hope that you agree to
0:14:24	approve the uh the variance uh the
0:14:27	conditions
0:14:28	i think that we can work with the
0:14:31	long-term bike parking i'm co-owner in a
0:14:35	mini storage business
0:14:37	which there are currently minutes ago
0:14:41	seven bikes parked into building aids
0:14:43	many storage
0:14:45	units and three into building bees
0:14:48	and so i think that is already kind of
0:14:51	operating like a long-term storage in
0:14:53	those facilities
0:14:54	and the street side parking
0:14:58	we had discussion with the uh city
0:15:00	previously
0:15:01	about some of the difficulties i've
0:15:03	tried to put city bike parking on site
0:15:06	at the hoa and that was denied and so
0:15:09	we discussed on putting street side
0:15:11	parking and hopefully we can work with
0:15:13	the hoa to come up with a
0:15:14	what i think would be a better solution
0:15:18	for bike parking but certainly i'm a big
0:15:21	proponent for biking
0:15:23	that's my other job joint for its
0:15:25	medicine is
0:15:26	kind of working with guys like you and
0:15:28	city planning on trying to make
0:15:30	communities healthier and so that's a
0:15:32	big part of it
0:15:33	and one of the issues with ada parking
0:15:35	and
0:15:36	i was able to demonstrate that yes we do
0:15:38	have ada parking that's sufficient for
0:15:40	the place in fact we
0:15:41	as a hoa we've moved it into a more
0:15:44	amenable spot for
0:15:45	accessibility to all units commercial
0:15:47	and residential
0:15:49	and uh given those conditions i hope you
0:15:52	find that the
0:15:53	variance is favorable for the city of
0:15:55	australia thank you so much
0:15:57	if there any questions i can answer
0:16:01	[Music]
0:16:02	hi joan yes i do have a question
0:16:07	um i just want to make it clear when you
0:16:09	say there's no
0:16:10	available parking for new business you
0:16:12	mean there's actual parking it's just
0:16:14	it's not zoned to
0:16:16	uh to approve more business to come in
0:16:19	there
0:16:20	so as you can see by the picture there's
0:16:22	a lot of parking
0:16:23	well i i can't tell though how many
0:16:25	spaces there are from that
0:16:27	right i have i'm not sure if you
0:16:29	received it in your packet but i did a
0:16:31	parking study over three years it showed
0:16:34	that
0:16:34	on average there's about 75 percent of
0:16:36	the spaces that are available
0:16:38	just that in terms of how much is
0:16:40	allocated by
0:16:41	zoning application might correct me if
0:16:44	i'm wrong and how i'm saying this
0:16:45	is that as you the only certain number
0:16:48	of those spaces have been allocated for
0:16:50	commercial use
0:16:52	and a certain number of spaces are
0:16:54	allocated for residential use and
0:16:56	then there's actually an additional
0:16:58	number of parking spaces that
0:16:59	you know go beyond those requirements
0:17:01	interior parking lot
0:17:03	however we're asking for variance just
0:17:05	for street side parking to
0:17:07	allow for that application how much
0:17:10	did that come close to me yeah so do
0:17:13	residents
0:17:14	residential and commercial visits
0:17:17	residents versus
0:17:18	people visiting the businesses did they
0:17:20	just park in the same spots i mean is
0:17:22	there any competition
0:17:24	well they they did after the rezoning
0:17:28	prior to the head this is confusing
0:17:29	prior to the rezoning all the commercial
0:17:32	spaces were in the covered parking area
0:17:35	after the rezoning that those parking
0:17:39	spaces opened up with the exception of
0:17:41	those that were
0:17:45	uh the their business license and their
0:17:47	contracts
0:17:48	occurred under the general industrial
0:17:50	they still have reserve parking spaces
0:17:52	and then everything is you know open
0:17:54	parking okay thank you
0:17:56	thank you anyone else
0:18:00	[Music]
0:18:02	just to clarify the residential spaces
0:18:04	are not reserved it's all open
0:18:06	they're the only reserve spaces are for
0:18:08	a select number of commercial
0:18:10	uh tents i think five spaces now yeah
0:18:13	out of 104.
0:18:18	thank you dr parker thank you
0:18:21	is there a presentation by a person in
0:18:23	favor of the application
0:18:28	[Music]
0:18:36	good evening planning commission feels
0:18:37	pretty funny to be up here kevin cronin
0:18:39	former community
0:18:40	director for the city of australia and
0:18:41	currently a consultant here living in
0:18:43	the great city of astoria
0:18:45	um so ted forgive is one of my clients
0:18:48	that i'm helping i'm more coaching him
0:18:50	i'm technically not the applicant's
0:18:51	representative because
0:18:52	the application was actually submitted
0:18:55	prior to my involvement with ted
0:18:57	i'm here to answer any questions you
0:18:59	might have and i'll just reiterate that
0:19:02	both ted and i met with rosemary and
0:19:03	mike last week right before
0:19:05	the publishing of the report to make
0:19:06	sure we clarified some of the conditions
0:19:08	and
0:19:09	we have agreed to all those conditions
0:19:11	so we feel like we've worked really hard
0:19:13	to get to a place where we can all
0:19:15	um agree to uh making
0:19:18	a better resource for the community as
0:19:21	well as the business community so
0:19:23	we're happy we're at this point so if
0:19:24	there's any questions that the
0:19:25	commission has about how we've gotten
0:19:27	here
0:19:27	i'm happy to entertain those or ted
0:19:30	thank you mr chrome you're welcome all
0:19:33	right thanks
0:19:37	is there a presentation by persons who
0:19:39	would speak impartial to the application
0:19:43	[Music]
0:19:47	in opposition to it no impartial oh i'm
0:19:50	sorry
0:19:52	impartial um i would
0:19:55	state that i'm going to speak in favor
0:19:57	of it but i do have some comments before
0:20:00	those the favorable comments you are
0:20:02	welcome to speak in favor if you would
0:20:03	like
0:20:04	this would be the time and i want to ask
0:20:06	some questions about some technicalities
0:20:09	is that possible
0:20:23	i'm leslie morehead i'm a member of the
0:20:26	board of directors of cannery lofts
0:20:27	homeowners association i'm the treasurer
0:20:29	and chair of the governance committee
0:20:31	and chair of the finance committee
0:20:32	having said that i am not representing
0:20:34	the board of directors of the cannery
0:20:36	lobsome owners association or any of the
0:20:38	other owners or any committee members
0:20:40	i visit morgan moorhead if you could
0:20:43	give your address please my address is
0:20:46	39.90 abby lane unit 406b
0:20:50	my mailing address and permanent
0:20:51	residence is in portland 8210
0:20:53	southwest woods creek court portland
0:20:55	97219
0:20:57	great thank you thank you now i do have
0:20:59	some questions and i'll go through them
0:21:01	not
0:21:01	expecting you to answer them but i would
0:21:03	like to be on record as
0:21:05	ask asking some of these questions and i
0:21:06	think we can get them pretty easily
0:21:08	resolved um on the original application
0:21:12	that ted put in he stated that he
0:21:16	is representing tax lots 800 and 900
0:21:20	those are the tax slots the overall tax
0:21:23	lot numbers for the entire
0:21:25	community and you've corrected in the
0:21:27	staff report to identify
0:21:29	specifically which tax lots he has
0:21:32	which are the tax lots for the ground
0:21:33	floor there's
0:21:35	eight units in one building and nine
0:21:36	units in the other building a total of
0:21:38	17
0:21:39	uh he also stated that the property
0:21:41	owner's name was the same as the
0:21:42	applicant and that's his name
0:21:44	he is not the owner of the property the
0:21:46	homeowner's association is the owner of
0:21:48	the property
0:21:49	so i want to make sure that that when
0:21:51	his application
0:21:52	goes into permanently in the public
0:21:53	record that i hope those two things are
0:21:56	corrected
0:21:59	now a couple comments on your staff
0:22:01	report
0:22:03	on page one it states as the fourth
0:22:06	owner cannery law partners llc
0:22:10	with an address in portland on southwest
0:22:11	mcadam that's not accurate
0:22:13	i understood that you got that uh
0:22:16	address from the tax assessor's office
0:22:18	is that right is that what i'm told
0:22:20	that's correct
0:22:20	so we will provide you through our
0:22:22	property management company with the
0:22:24	correct address of the current
0:22:26	legal address of the property management
0:22:27	company which is the hoas address
0:22:29	just so that we'll get that correctly
0:22:31	[Music]
0:22:34	on page three where you calculate the
0:22:36	gross floor area
0:22:39	i don't object at all to
0:22:42	the request that is being made for
0:22:44	additional on-street parking that
0:22:46	the applicant is asking you to provide
0:22:48	however the calculation here is a little
0:22:50	ironic because you're allowing
0:22:52	the inclusion of ground floor restrooms
0:22:55	and
0:22:57	again i understand that's one of several
0:22:59	ways that you could have calculated
0:23:00	the required parking i don't know if
0:23:02	raising that or lowering that would
0:23:03	raise or lower the number of parking
0:23:05	spaces
0:23:06	but i say it's ironic because uh using
0:23:09	this calculation which is
0:23:11	including the ground floor restrooms
0:23:13	just as recently as late last fall
0:23:15	uh ted was arguing at the board of
0:23:17	directors
0:23:18	that those are general common elements
0:23:20	but those don't really have a direct
0:23:21	relationship even though they're on the
0:23:23	ground floor
0:23:23	they don't have a direct relationship to
0:23:25	the commercial units so
0:23:27	i know these are two different milieus
0:23:30	the board of directors is
0:23:31	one thing for the hoa and the city
0:23:33	planning office is another
0:23:34	but i that jumped out at me because we
0:23:36	have reserved those commercial
0:23:38	those ground floor restrooms for
0:23:39	commercial use only for all these years
0:23:41	and then last year there was a debate
0:23:43	and we took them out reserved for the
0:23:45	commercial and
0:23:46	said they were available to all
0:23:47	commercial and residential users
0:23:52	on page 8 the
0:23:56	first finding about halfway down says
0:23:59	that building a
0:24:00	is proposing something and building b is
0:24:01	proposing something else
0:24:03	when we use colloquially in the terms
0:24:06	building b and building a
0:24:07	and can we lost we mean the whole
0:24:09	building and generally that means the
0:24:11	residents of the building
0:24:12	i think this is just a shorthand way in
0:24:14	the staff report of saying that
0:24:16	but really it's the owner of the
0:24:18	commercial spaces in building a that's
0:24:20	requesting a certain number of parking
0:24:21	spaces
0:24:22	and he's also the owner of commercial
0:24:24	and building b so it's not building a or
0:24:26	building b that's
0:24:27	requesting something of you it's ted who
0:24:29	owns businesses on the ground floor
0:24:35	lastly i'll say that we would like
0:24:39	very much to work with ted on the things
0:24:42	that we have to do to make his proposal
0:24:44	a good one we very much support his
0:24:48	interest in filling those remaining
0:24:49	spaces we would love to have all the
0:24:51	spaces occupied with
0:24:52	viable tenants good paying tenants
0:24:55	customers
0:24:56	we'd like them lighted and it's a safety
0:24:57	issue there's all kinds of reasons for
0:24:59	those to succeed
0:25:00	but we really need to work more closely
0:25:02	with him on the things that you are
0:25:04	going to require
0:25:05	us to work with him on i just want us
0:25:07	before we leave here tonight
0:25:08	for the residents who are here and for
0:25:10	the hoa in general
0:25:11	to know exactly what you expect from us
0:25:14	from the board of directors and from the
0:25:15	hoa
0:25:16	that we have to work with them on i
0:25:18	understand the issue of the ada parking
0:25:20	has been resolved
0:25:21	is that right okay so now i think that
0:25:24	the issue of bike
0:25:25	parking whether it's on site or on
0:25:27	street is something that you were
0:25:29	requiring us to
0:25:30	review a proposal from him is that right
0:25:31	and bring it back to you do i understand
0:25:33	that correctly
0:25:36	yeah yeah mr morgan please thank you i
0:25:42	think
0:25:42	the solution you know in in response to
0:25:45	his contention
0:25:46	that that the hoa would not permit
0:25:49	bicycle parking uh on site
0:25:53	uh staff agreed that it could be in the
0:25:57	uh right-of-way either on the sidewalk
0:26:00	or in the landscaping that's in
0:26:02	public right-of-way abby lane maybe
0:26:05	on both 39th and on abbey lane but if
0:26:09	if you're if hoa if he and you've come
0:26:12	to some sort of agreement
0:26:14	for a lot to allow
0:26:17	bike parking in your parking lot then so
0:26:20	much the better
0:26:22	that's very much a possibility we
0:26:23	discussed bike parking late last year
0:26:25	but it was in a different context
0:26:27	and it's not a true statement to say the
0:26:28	age only turned it down
0:26:30	there's a history there that i don't
0:26:31	need to go into right now but we can
0:26:32	certainly work out
0:26:34	an agreement on that i would think um
0:26:36	and if you want to allow it on the
0:26:38	street that's one thing if we want to
0:26:40	consider locations on site
0:26:41	that's fine it would i would think and
0:26:43	again i'm speaking very unofficially
0:26:45	here
0:26:45	but that then bike parking would have to
0:26:47	be available for both residential
0:26:48	residential and commercial
0:26:50	use and we'd have to decide how much was
0:26:52	required by you or how much we actually
0:26:54	thought we
0:26:54	needed so we can go through those issues
0:26:56	and work them out i'm sure
0:26:58	um and lastly i noticed that at the end
0:27:00	of the staff report there's a couple
0:27:01	mentions of landscaping
0:27:03	and i don't know where you are asked
0:27:06	what
0:27:06	you're asking us to do about that i just
0:27:08	don't know we actually are finished as
0:27:09	you
0:27:10	probably have noticed uh with the more
0:27:12	than two year construction
0:27:14	project at the at henry lofts and so
0:27:16	we're going into some serious
0:27:17	landscaping
0:27:18	uh now for them particularly for the
0:27:19	north side and there'll be some done on
0:27:21	the south side and in
0:27:22	the cul-de-sac area if you are requiring
0:27:25	anything for us to do about landscaping
0:27:26	in connection with this variance
0:27:28	proposal or other
0:27:30	requirements of landscaping i hope
0:27:32	you'll you'll let us know
0:27:34	lastly i'd like to make sure in the
0:27:38	answer to
0:27:38	commissioner herman's question that the
0:27:40	owners can be the residential owners can
0:27:42	be assured that no residential parking
0:27:44	will be taken
0:27:45	from them we have an allocation of at
0:27:48	least 85 parking spaces that are in the
0:27:50	calculation that has been there from the
0:27:51	beginning has never changed
0:27:53	uh even with the zoning change and we
0:27:55	want to make sure that everyone
0:27:56	who has a residence there is assured of
0:27:59	their
0:28:00	1.5 or 1.25 parking places
0:28:03	those are not marked they're not
0:28:04	reserved they're first come first served
0:28:07	uh but even though the point has been
0:28:09	made many times
0:28:10	henry lofts has a lot of available
0:28:12	parking
0:28:14	i i just don't know why that that
0:28:16	argument is
0:28:17	being put forward because i think that
0:28:21	in one sense i'm supporting and i think
0:28:23	ted is saying to the city
0:28:25	please allow us to to have him have
0:28:29	an extra additional i think 12 to 18
0:28:31	spaces
0:28:32	is that what it is allow him to have
0:28:34	that on the street but rest assured that
0:28:36	people probably won't park in the street
0:28:38	they probably won't
0:28:39	park all the way out to the street from
0:28:41	the locations that that
0:28:42	ted's units has if he has if his renters
0:28:45	have employees or
0:28:47	customers certainly vendors people will
0:28:49	park where they can and they're
0:28:50	certainly welcome on the property they
0:28:52	can park wherever they want
0:28:53	the issue might come up that eventually
0:28:56	we have a far
0:28:56	heavier residential use of parking and
0:28:59	in that case i think we'd have to
0:29:01	make some adjustment signage or
0:29:02	something like that but we are nowhere
0:29:04	near
0:29:04	that but i just hope that the argument
0:29:07	the explanation that there's a lot of
0:29:09	parking as we see available
0:29:10	is not part of the reason that you're
0:29:13	going to
0:29:13	allow him this variant we want those
0:29:16	commercial spaces to be
0:29:18	as i said occupied viable used by really
0:29:20	good solid businesses that i hope
0:29:22	i can patronize myself and we just don't
0:29:25	want to have any
0:29:26	door open or anything that we haven't
0:29:28	been told
0:29:29	that comes back to honda's in terms of
0:29:32	residents
0:29:32	suddenly finding out there isn't enough
0:29:34	hiking for residents
0:29:36	great okay thank you thank you so much
0:29:38	that was a statement in favor of the
0:29:40	application
0:29:41	okay
0:29:46	impartial oh are you still in favor yes
0:29:49	sir
0:29:52	great
0:29:54	good evening my name is sunil raju i'm
0:29:56	an attorney with gamble and popkin and
0:29:58	seaside
0:29:58	our office address is 1580 north
0:30:01	roosevelt drive
0:30:02	i'm here actually on behalf of a client
0:30:04	of mine who's a tenant
0:30:05	a commercial tenant in building a at the
0:30:08	cannery loft so
0:30:09	the client's name is mary french
0:30:13	peterson and french peterson's
0:30:16	hyphenated and peterson is son
0:30:18	and her business is water's edge spa
0:30:22	and building a she has suites 102 and
0:30:25	103
0:30:27	and she and her son are
0:30:30	co-signers on the lease for the business
0:30:32	and started it
0:30:33	back in 2016 and they built out two
0:30:37	connecting suites for a
0:30:40	beauty place with services for massage
0:30:43	and nails and
0:30:44	and things of that nature i can share
0:30:47	that mary who's who's the mother
0:30:51	invested 65 000 of her retirement to try
0:30:54	to make this
0:30:55	happen and invest in the space and build
0:30:57	it out
0:30:58	but they didn't realize that
0:31:02	with the parking restrictions that they
0:31:03	could only use half of the
0:31:05	stations they had built out in the
0:31:07	building
0:31:08	so mary wanted me to speak to you
0:31:12	on her behalf to ask you to consider
0:31:16	the needs of the businesses i can't
0:31:17	speak to all the other businesses
0:31:20	as far as the commercial units but this
0:31:23	is a business
0:31:24	in particular which would really benefit
0:31:26	from some flexibility
0:31:28	i can say i don't know i would
0:31:30	necessarily expect
0:31:32	that all of the chairs in the spot were
0:31:34	busy at the same time
0:31:36	i don't know that they would compete
0:31:39	with residents in the evenings because
0:31:41	the spa wouldn't be open in the evenings
0:31:44	when people are coming home at least
0:31:45	there'll be probably a little bit of
0:31:46	overlap
0:31:48	uh i'm certainly not an expert at spa
0:31:50	services myself but
0:31:51	i can tell you i think that this would
0:31:53	be something that would be complementary
0:31:55	between
0:31:56	the business side and the residential
0:31:58	side of the
0:31:59	of the of the buildings so if anyone has
0:32:02	any questions i'm happy to answer but i
0:32:04	just wanted to speak on behalf of a
0:32:06	business owner who's in favor of the
0:32:08	parking missions
0:32:09	great thank you thank you
0:32:15	any other presentations in favor of the
0:32:16	application
0:32:21	impartial
0:32:25	it's a presentation by people who would
0:32:28	speak against the application
0:32:32	yes
0:32:39	you may but again at the microphone
0:32:42	state your name and address please
0:32:46	my name is lois dupay and my address is
0:32:50	post office box 1282 astoria
0:32:55	i'd like to urge the planning commission
0:32:58	and also
0:32:59	the city council to adopt
0:33:02	a standard that requires
0:33:06	people that come in here and put
0:33:08	developments like this in
0:33:10	to provide 100 parking
0:33:13	as a standard we have a big
0:33:16	parking problem in this town and
0:33:20	it's only going to get worse
0:33:23	we've had a lot of public testimony
0:33:26	already
0:33:27	on the safety issue in the crosswalks i
0:33:30	have testified on that
0:33:31	more than once and
0:33:35	this is only compounding the same
0:33:38	problem
0:33:38	this is kind of a funnel here you've
0:33:40	noticed i'm sure
0:33:42	and it's going to be developing rapidly
0:33:46	the future of this town is very positive
0:33:50	there's going to be a lot of development
0:33:52	here but if we don't
0:33:53	think ahead and provide leadership on
0:33:56	this
0:33:57	issue we're going to run into some real
0:34:00	problems
0:34:01	so i'm asking you to
0:34:04	deny this application because we need to
0:34:08	think ahead
0:34:09	we need to lead on this we need to
0:34:11	require
0:34:13	investors to build the parking
0:34:16	they need there's going to be tourists
0:34:19	there's like it or not the fishing
0:34:21	industry
0:34:21	is not going away from this town there's
0:34:24	a lot of uses for that right-of-way
0:34:27	parking
0:34:29	there is also the pier
0:34:33	that parking lot that they have out
0:34:34	there on the pier is full
0:34:36	when people are at that coffee shop i've
0:34:38	been there not been able to find a place
0:34:40	to park
0:34:41	it's not fair to the public to allow
0:34:43	this developer
0:34:44	to monopolize the public right away
0:34:47	thank you
0:34:48	thank you
0:34:52	is there a rebuttal testimony from the
0:34:55	[Music]
0:35:00	applicant
0:35:03	thank you once again um i just wanted to
0:35:06	clarify
0:35:07	the i believe the tax slots that are
0:35:09	listed that uh
0:35:12	this ms moorhead presented i believe
0:35:14	they are all the commercial tax lots
0:35:16	that are listed
0:35:18	correctly unless i have a different form
0:35:20	than what she's seeing
0:35:22	and the ground four bathrooms were
0:35:24	calculated into the
0:35:26	calculations based off of a request on
0:35:29	how to calculate square footage put
0:35:30	forth by
0:35:31	uh consultant planner rosemary john
0:35:34	johnson
0:35:35	uh and uh it's true that i did put
0:35:39	through
0:35:39	in what's called an arc application
0:35:41	request requesting to install uh
0:35:44	actually double the amount of the
0:35:45	parking bicycle parking requested by the
0:35:47	city but that was
0:35:49	declined by when it was presented to the
0:35:52	board
0:35:53	and you know there the parking proposal
0:35:57	that we're putting forth
0:35:59	really has nothing to do with
0:36:00	residential parking so
0:36:02	it's all adding additional parking out
0:36:03	into the right-of-way that hasn't been
0:36:06	allocated otherwise uh you know and if
0:36:09	you're wondering
0:36:10	you know why there's not more
0:36:12	interaction through the hwa board on
0:36:14	this specific topic because
0:36:16	during the rezoning application uh there
0:36:18	is a great deal of acrimony between
0:36:20	uh microsoft and the board one of the
0:36:23	board members
0:36:23	was having a secret meetings and
0:36:26	organize a
0:36:27	parking coup as a result so that just
0:36:30	you know unfortunately changed the way
0:36:34	that
0:36:34	i presented this variance
0:36:37	for obvious reasons
0:36:41	thank you any questions for the
0:36:43	applicant
0:36:46	thank you dr parker
0:36:50	any clues closing remarks from stout
0:36:54	a couple of turns now closed
0:37:00	discussion
0:37:07	well i'll jump in just uh i would step
0:37:10	down because i wasn't sure
0:37:11	i was going to make the meeting or not
0:37:14	um
0:37:15	and i i'm in my retirement
0:37:18	i visit coffee shops so i
0:37:22	go to the circuit and and uh and this is
0:37:25	one of the places i go by
0:37:26	so i uh it's clear that there's lots of
0:37:29	vacant parking spaces and i
0:37:32	um and reading this staff report and
0:37:36	reports from the consultants and so on i
0:37:38	looked at the mailing list
0:37:41	and i counted and under 30 percent
0:37:45	of the owners have local
0:37:48	addresses so that's clearly why
0:37:53	the parking lot is vacant all the time
0:37:56	you know where there are lots of spaces
0:37:59	and i you know i'm kind of struggling
0:38:01	with this because it's not
0:38:04	this whole concept of second homes and
0:38:08	condos as second homes is
0:38:11	not something that the um
0:38:15	that cities i think dealt with at least
0:38:17	small cities our size
0:38:19	until more recently
0:38:22	and it's it's it is a puzzle because you
0:38:25	see all that space there
0:38:27	and people do go and park there
0:38:31	however i also know that traditionally
0:38:35	space along street fronts is considered
0:38:38	public parking space
0:38:40	you know that you can just pull into you
0:38:43	don't own the
0:38:44	parking space even in front of your
0:38:46	house
0:38:48	you're supposed to have off street
0:38:49	parking so i'm really i'm just i'm
0:38:51	i'm sharing this because it i can't
0:38:54	quite
0:38:55	decide what to do with it
0:38:58	i think right now the on-street parking
0:39:00	is used for
0:39:01	people taking the trolley uh visiting
0:39:05	uses on the pier as needed
0:39:07	joining the river walk whenever
0:39:10	there's the cannery workers annual
0:39:13	celebration it's full
0:39:15	i know that the tourist number two
0:39:18	tourist number two the ferry is going to
0:39:20	be parked there
0:39:22	sometime in the next few months and
0:39:25	they're wanting to put it there so it is
0:39:28	visible to the public
0:39:30	so they can help raise money to restore
0:39:34	it
0:39:34	and and those people
0:39:37	will need to park along that
0:39:40	that street so there's lots of
0:39:44	there's lots of users competing for that
0:39:48	parking space and i don't know how
0:39:51	a city can guarantee
0:39:55	those spaces for the commercial uses
0:39:58	unless they somehow post them
0:40:03	but i do think i do realize that
0:40:07	it's to everybody's benefit if those
0:40:09	commercial spaces are filled
0:40:12	with uses that are appropriate for the
0:40:15	for the condos and that will add value
0:40:20	and enrichment to their lives but i'm
0:40:23	just not
0:40:24	you know if we could say oh the people
0:40:26	who bought second homes here
0:40:28	are never going to be here at the same
0:40:30	time and there's always got to be extra
0:40:33	open parking there then maybe we but
0:40:36	that's not the way law is written
0:40:38	so i'm just i'm just kind of burgling
0:40:42	out
0:40:43	those concerns i don't quite know what
0:40:45	to do with it
0:40:46	because something tells me we ought to
0:40:49	be
0:40:49	those on-street parking spaces are
0:40:51	public parking spaces just like
0:40:54	they are in my neighborhood
0:40:57	[Music]
0:40:59	and but i don't you know but it's clear
0:41:01	there's room there
0:41:03	but i don't know if all those other 70
0:41:06	of the people are gonna decide a story
0:41:08	is a wonderful place and they're gonna
0:41:10	they're going to end up their time here
0:41:12	um there's no way of knowing that
0:41:14	[Music]
0:41:17	so john well i
0:41:20	i just wanted to i i think that um
0:41:23	this parking study from lancaster was
0:41:27	included in your in your pack um
0:41:30	i think one of the con one of the
0:41:32	factors that
0:41:35	that we looked at
0:41:38	was the usage of the of the parking lot
0:41:41	over a three-year period
0:41:43	and the for example the memorial
0:41:47	the the largest percentage usage um
0:41:51	of 111 spaces was
0:41:54	memorial day weekend um 34
0:41:58	uh the homeowners association meeting
0:42:01	in mid-july uh 43 percent
0:42:06	her number of vehicles was 43 out of out
0:42:08	of 111 spaces
0:42:12	so even on those two um
0:42:15	big weekends it didn't seem like there
0:42:18	was much utilization of
0:42:20	of the parking uh the parking there
0:42:24	one factor is that that we we did
0:42:27	require when it was built
0:42:28	that each each unit have two parking
0:42:31	spaces
0:42:32	and typically people you know people
0:42:35	they use it for second homes don't come
0:42:37	down with two cars
0:42:39	so that's that's one factor the other
0:42:41	the other factor
0:42:42	is that these spaces aren't available to
0:42:46	the
0:42:48	at least in the parking lot are not
0:42:49	available to the people that use
0:42:52	pure 39 or
0:43:01	it's not offensive at least sorry
0:43:10	thank you um pier 39
0:43:14	uh i believe still leases part of the
0:43:17	space from the hampton
0:43:19	required to provide some some parking
0:43:22	space
0:43:23	in the hampton lock so that added to the
0:43:26	on-street parking
0:43:27	you know provides some buffers against
0:43:30	um overcrowding well the best thing i
0:43:34	heard you say was
0:43:35	that made sense i mean
0:43:39	maybe we do assume those feet those
0:43:41	those are second homes for people
0:43:43	they're not
0:43:44	real you know people are going to come
0:43:47	for the weekend or
0:43:48	on holiday uh and you're
0:43:52	and if you have required two spaces per
0:43:54	unit
0:43:56	you're right people who don't live there
0:43:58	are probably not done
0:44:00	missing the two spaces but how do you
0:44:02	work that
0:44:03	i mean that works itself out but how do
0:44:06	you work that out
0:44:07	in terms of
0:44:11	enforcing the zoning ordinance
0:44:16	i have a question
0:44:17	[Music]
0:44:20	does this variance expire in two years
0:44:22	or is it permanent regardless of the
0:44:24	conditional uses no we
0:44:28	because because the tenants uh come and
0:44:31	go
0:44:31	i think the condition that we included
0:44:34	was
0:44:36	[Music]
0:44:39	the the two-year the two-year
0:44:42	period doesn't the permits will be valid
0:44:44	beyond two-year
0:44:45	maximum pinning occupancy by any of the
0:44:47	approved uses in the permit
0:44:49	so you know it's an ongoing experience
0:44:54	[Music]
0:44:59	well i certainly um you
0:45:04	wish to help
0:45:08	these retail spaces
0:45:11	become you know the ones are empty
0:45:13	become viable
0:45:15	locations for potential businesses it's
0:45:18	a
0:45:18	shame that this lawn is limited to using
0:45:22	four
0:45:22	tables or chairs at one time because
0:45:24	they only have four parking spaces
0:45:26	when the parking lot is 75
0:45:29	empty most of the time um
0:45:35	it's it is a difficult situation i feel
0:45:38	you know i know this
0:45:39	is a different zone but if you think of
0:45:42	commercial uses downtown
0:45:43	using parking
0:45:52	[Music]
0:45:55	but without that that's where we come
0:45:58	into this little
0:46:00	problem as if it would be it wouldn't
0:46:02	seem unfair to the residents if they
0:46:05	drive up one day and there's no parking
0:46:07	space available because that
0:46:10	technically they do own their parking
0:46:12	spaces even if they're
0:46:14	served so
0:46:24	mr eason
0:46:39	we have suggested and other uses
0:46:43	that there be a shared parking
0:46:48	why that can't happen here i don't know
0:46:52	and then i think that was where the
0:46:55	occupancies
0:46:57	of the residents of the commercial are
0:46:58	not going to be the same
0:47:08	people saying we have a partner problem
0:47:11	and i
0:47:11	really don't see that we do have a
0:47:13	parking problem
0:47:14	um you go downtown yeah if you can't
0:47:18	park in front people
0:47:20	get upset that they have to walk half a
0:47:21	walk to out of space
0:47:25	i shop downtown i go downtown
0:47:28	um i think the farthest i've had to
0:47:31	walk is a block and a half i don't
0:47:33	consider that parking front
0:47:35	i've never not found a parking spot
0:47:37	downtown
0:47:38	i don't think there's going to be that
0:47:40	parking issue
0:47:42	even close to that parking issue in this
0:47:44	location
0:47:47	i it is not feasible
0:47:51	for every building to supply all party
0:47:54	it just doesn't work
0:47:58	so i'm probably
0:48:01	more leaning in favor thank you
0:48:07	okay commissioner herman um i'm
0:48:10	leaning in favor of the variants
0:48:13	most or many of the residents are
0:48:16	these are second homes so i think the
0:48:19	chance chances
0:48:20	of them being completely full at the
0:48:22	same time
0:48:24	is small and we're not
0:48:27	uh prohibited i mean what would happen
0:48:29	if
0:48:30	let's say worst case scenario that were
0:48:32	to happen can
0:48:34	the something be done at that point
0:48:37	i mean are we um is this
0:48:40	set in stone once we approve this
0:48:44	um pretty much oh it is okay
0:48:48	i still i still feel pretty comfortable
0:48:51	with improving the
0:48:52	the variants because of the nature of
0:48:54	the housing down there
0:48:56	um it sounds like there's more than
0:48:57	adequate housing
0:48:59	and if the businesses are not able to
0:49:03	um for example simply come to the space
0:49:07	because there is an adequate parking
0:49:09	or zoning for parking there is adequate
0:49:11	parking but not the zoning
0:49:13	that seems a shame and i'm wondering
0:49:15	mike do you know did the city
0:49:17	just overestimate the amount of parking
0:49:19	needed
0:49:20	or is there a certain calculation that's
0:49:23	always used
0:49:25	in estimating how much parking would be
0:49:27	required
0:49:29	i um i you know i take some ownership of
0:49:34	these standards
0:49:35	back in the day but i mean
0:49:38	one per 500 is is a fairly generous
0:49:41	number in terms of square footage
0:49:45	retail one per 500 square
0:49:48	square feet professional business
0:49:51	offices one per 500
0:49:55	i think maybe the the spa
0:49:59	for example is a little bit out there
0:50:02	i mean the fact that you have to have a
0:50:04	a chair for every
0:50:05	every i mean a space for every chair is
0:50:08	a little is a little much
0:50:10	but um i don't think i think most of the
0:50:13	the standards are are you know
0:50:17	in in agreement with most of the other
0:50:19	communities
0:50:20	the uh you know the fact that
0:50:23	you need two spaces for each condominium
0:50:26	unit
0:50:26	is like as i said is you know provides a
0:50:30	lot of overage
0:50:31	in the fact that people are i don't know
0:50:34	what the percentage of
0:50:36	second homes to permanent homes are but
0:50:39	you know i i live in canton beach and in
0:50:43	time certain times of the year like now
0:50:45	it's a ghost town
0:50:46	you know because the second homeowners
0:50:48	are just not around
0:50:50	um but but yeah it's a
0:50:54	i think it's their reasonable standards
0:50:56	that there's you know there's always
0:50:57	some
0:50:58	room for improvement one concern i do
0:51:02	have
0:51:03	with those on street parking spaces if
0:51:05	we approve the variants
0:51:07	would they be restricted to the public
0:51:10	the on street yes yeah the on-street
0:51:14	parking spaces that would be
0:51:15	essentially no i i don't think the
0:51:18	intent was to say
0:51:19	to have put up signage and say you know
0:51:22	resident only
0:51:23	or you know public only i think i think
0:51:25	it's just assumed that
0:51:27	you know you're here spaces and
0:51:30	you know whoever gets there first great
0:51:33	thank you
0:51:34	good question because i have
0:51:35	commissioner herman because i have the
0:51:36	same question so
0:51:40	do you have other comments or no i think
0:51:42	that's it that's great
0:51:46	i was also operating under the
0:51:48	assumption that these
0:51:49	spaces um on-street spaces that we're
0:51:51	talking about
0:51:52	wouldn't be marked in any way they would
0:51:54	just be for zoning purposes
0:51:58	allocated but they wouldn't actually be
0:51:59	separated or restricted
0:52:01	only for um people that are coming to
0:52:05	use these commercial spaces
0:52:08	i i shared jan's concerns about
0:52:13	restricting or allocating right-of-way
0:52:16	parking
0:52:16	i think that in almost any other part of
0:52:19	town i would be more concerned about it
0:52:20	in this particular location i think i'm
0:52:22	comfortable with this
0:52:24	with this proposal it doesn't seem like
0:52:27	it's going to
0:52:28	the way that it's written it wouldn't
0:52:29	compete with the residents in any way i
0:52:31	think that's really important
0:52:33	i'm also very in favor of
0:52:37	being a little bit flexible in order to
0:52:39	encourage economic development in this
0:52:40	area
0:52:41	another thing that makes me kind of
0:52:42	makes me comfortable with this is that i
0:52:44	recognize that we're only talking about
0:52:46	um right-of-way spaces on the
0:52:49	the blocks just directly adjacent to
0:52:52	this
0:52:52	um to this to these two buildings and
0:52:56	you can really see that there's a lot of
0:52:57	other on-street you know on-street
0:52:58	parking that would be
0:53:00	like commissioner easton said a block
0:53:01	and a half walk that would also be
0:53:03	you know an easy walking distance for
0:53:05	anyone using these commercial spaces if
0:53:06	everything else was full
0:53:08	i think that when you look at what else
0:53:10	might happen in this area
0:53:11	you know the hampton already has a lot
0:53:13	of property that they're taking up
0:53:15	i don't see a lot of other kind of
0:53:16	competition coming in i was also glad to
0:53:19	learn that the um pier 39 businesses
0:53:22	have some lease
0:53:23	parking in the hampton parking lot
0:53:26	because i didn't know
0:53:30	but yeah for those reasons i think i'm
0:53:31	comfortable with this particular
0:53:32	proposal
0:53:33	thank you commissioner commissioner
0:53:35	moore
0:53:36	thank you mr president uh to restate one
0:53:40	more way that might help clarify
0:53:41	the variance request is to reduce the
0:53:44	number of
0:53:45	off-street parking spaces and part of
0:53:47	the justification for doing that
0:53:49	is the availability of on-street parking
0:53:52	so
0:53:54	we're not locking that on street parking
0:53:56	into anything it just happens to be
0:53:58	there
0:53:58	and um the applicant is using that as
0:54:01	part of the justification to free up
0:54:03	or to reduce the number of required off
0:54:05	street
0:54:06	when when we're looking at variances
0:54:09	um you know the key points here are
0:54:12	whether or not
0:54:14	there is a the variance will prevent
0:54:17	an unnecessary hardship um
0:54:20	that the development is consistent with
0:54:23	the neighborhood
0:54:25	[Music]
0:54:26	and the request is reasonable
0:54:29	to make or is necessary to make
0:54:32	reasonable use of the property and we've
0:54:33	seen this property before it's been very
0:54:35	difficult to get
0:54:36	um commercial businesses in there
0:54:39	and i think parking has been a huge
0:54:41	problem for that
0:54:43	i'm support this plan and hope that it
0:54:46	will generate some more interest
0:54:48	in those properties we can get some more
0:54:52	commercial business down there for
0:54:54	professionals
0:54:56	thank you commissioner moore
0:54:59	well i um i happen to own
0:55:03	a number of parking lots both commercial
0:55:06	and residential two of those lots
0:55:09	are legal non-conforming under current
0:55:13	code
0:55:13	we do not have enough parking under
0:55:16	current city code we do not have enough
0:55:18	parking
0:55:19	for the number of units that we have
0:55:21	there
0:55:24	we have never had the two units that are
0:55:27	legal non-conforming on the parking
0:55:29	we've never had a parking issue we're
0:55:31	located
0:55:31	on corners on street parking has never
0:55:34	been an issue
0:55:35	i've never had a tenant tell me that
0:55:37	they couldn't find a place to park
0:55:40	at a couple of our other units that have
0:55:42	the
0:55:43	required number of parking spaces or
0:55:45	nearly the required number of parking
0:55:47	spaces
0:55:48	um they're not full and if i go out
0:55:52	at five o'clock in the morning in my
0:55:55	residential
0:55:55	parking lot it's not fall the gas
0:55:57	parking lot is not full
0:55:59	um there are on-street parking spaces
0:56:02	and if i'm out there
0:56:03	at noon the parking lot is not full
0:56:06	and the on street parking is not my
0:56:08	fault
0:56:10	and that's that's virtually every day
0:56:14	of the year except for during the parade
0:56:17	for regatta in which case people
0:56:20	sneak into our parking spaces but other
0:56:22	than that we haven't had that issue
0:56:24	my commercial lot is virtually not used
0:56:27	at all
0:56:30	and so i have not experienced an issue
0:56:34	with
0:56:34	not having enough parking so
0:56:38	i understand what dr forkham is looking
0:56:41	for
0:56:42	and i also
0:56:46	appreciate commissioner um herman
0:56:50	clarifying these aren't going to be
0:56:52	reserved
0:56:53	on street parking spaces it's just
0:56:57	my belief or my understanding is that
0:56:59	he's asking if these can be counted
0:57:01	so that he can count it towards his
0:57:03	requirements so that he can
0:57:04	fill his commercial spaces so i don't
0:57:08	think it's
0:57:08	an unusual uh or an unreasonable request
0:57:14	so i am leaning towards approval
0:57:23	i'll make a motion i moved the astoria
0:57:26	planning commission adopt the findings
0:57:28	and conclusions contained in the staff
0:57:30	report
0:57:31	v 1704 by dr ted
0:57:34	borkham and approved the variance
0:57:37	request
0:57:39	do we have a second second all those in
0:57:42	favor
0:57:43	aye opposed
0:57:47	motion carries
0:57:50	the astoria planning commission's ruling
0:57:52	may be appealed by any person with
0:57:54	standing to the city council within 15
0:57:56	days of the mailing of the astoria
0:57:58	planning commission order
0:58:00	appeals shall be in writing and shall be
0:58:02	filed with the community development
0:58:03	director
0:58:05	if an appeal is not filed with the city
0:58:06	within the 15-day period the decision of
0:58:08	the astoria planning commission shall be
0:58:10	final
0:58:11	the permit will be void after two years
0:58:14	unless substantial construction has
0:58:15	taken place
0:58:16	or use has begun however the australia
0:58:19	planning commission may extend the
0:58:20	permit for an additional one year upon
0:58:22	request by the applicant
Reports of Officers
https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU?t=3506 
0:58:26	okay do we have reports of officers
Break (5-minutes)
https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU?t=3520 
0:58:40	great well we have been sitting for an
0:58:42	hour
0:58:43	i am going to recommend a five-minute
0:58:46	recess
0:58:47	and after which we will return for the
0:58:50	work session
0:59:17	fun
0:59:35	[Music]
1:00:05	[Music]
1:00:11	[Music]
1:00:22	[Music]
1:00:26	is
1:00:31	[Music]
1:00:40	no it says
1:00:49	[Music]
1:01:08	so no matter what directions
1:02:04	right
1:02:08	[Music]
1:02:15	[Music]
1:02:29	[Music]
1:02:43	[Music]
1:02:46	girl
1:03:00	is
1:03:13	[Music]
1:03:24	[Laughter]
1:03:27	[Music]
1:03:28	is
1:03:56	oh
1:04:07	[Music]
1:04:17	[Music]
1:04:24	okay
1:04:38	[Music]
1:04:46	[Music]
1:05:06	uh
1:05:10	[Music]
1:05:28	[Music]
1:05:34	um
1:05:39	[Music]
1:05:46	strange dance we're doing
Work Session – Proposed code language for emergency shelters
https://youtu.be/oN4buj9teNU?t=3956 
1:05:56	okay we will reconvene the
1:05:59	february 27 2018
1:06:03	planning commission meeting next on the
1:06:06	agenda
1:06:07	is a work session and
1:06:10	for those in the audience i will state
1:06:12	that in general during a work session we
1:06:14	don't take public comment
1:06:16	however this evening i have been given
1:06:19	the option
1:06:20	to allow public comment and i would be
1:06:23	very interested in hearing what the
1:06:24	public has to say
1:06:25	so we will have discussion among
1:06:29	the commission members and then we will
1:06:31	take
1:06:32	uh comments from the audience we would
1:06:34	ask that you do limit
1:06:36	your comments to three minutes and
1:06:39	if that works with the other commission
1:06:41	we will
1:06:42	start the discussion
1:06:47	mr morgan um this
1:06:50	this document was actually drafted by
1:06:55	commissioner moore and i don't know
1:06:59	i think i don't want to
1:07:03	dodge the bullet but i'd be happy to let
1:07:05	him lead the discussion
1:07:10	thank you mr morgan so
1:07:13	this document came out of uh the
1:07:16	long meetings we had talking about the
1:07:19	warming center
1:07:20	uh earlier this year and
1:07:24	um the goal of this
1:07:27	was to update our development code
1:07:30	to provide some guidance
1:07:34	on emergency warming shelters
1:07:38	in our city the goal is not to
1:07:41	make it harder for more regulation
1:07:45	this would actually reduce the amount of
1:07:47	regulation
1:07:48	right now they have to come in every
1:07:50	year and get a temporary use permit
1:07:52	because our development code doesn't
1:07:55	have
1:07:56	anything in it specific for emergency
1:07:58	warming chunkers
1:08:00	what this proposal would do would create
1:08:02	a specific conditional use standard
1:08:06	for a warming center an emergency
1:08:09	warming center that meets the criteria
1:08:11	in here
1:08:12	and they would just have to get that
1:08:14	once and they could operate in that same
1:08:16	location
1:08:17	every year what i did
1:08:21	in constructing this was come up with a
1:08:24	definition
1:08:25	definitions of both
1:08:28	the clients of the warming center
1:08:32	our emergency shelter and what an
1:08:34	emergency shelter is
1:08:36	the definitions i came up with are taken
1:08:38	from other development codes
1:08:40	that have definitions like this
1:08:43	the specific conditional use standard is
1:08:47	pretty close to verbatim from the
1:08:50	technical advisory
1:08:52	that they operate under currently there
1:08:55	are a couple of
1:08:56	minor additions some
1:09:00	personal safety additions that i had
1:09:02	added
1:09:04	and um
1:09:07	and then i identified zones that i
1:09:10	thought were appropriate for
1:09:12	a large emergency shelter now
1:09:16	something else to point out in this code
1:09:18	and please know this is
1:09:20	all up for discussion that's what we're
1:09:22	here for but
1:09:23	as it sits in front of you this would
1:09:26	apply to
1:09:27	a temporary emergency shelter
1:09:30	that accommodates more than 10 people
1:09:34	so if a church or
1:09:37	any organization wanted to operate a
1:09:39	small emergency
1:09:41	shelter they could do so in any zone
1:09:44	you know with the city's guidance on on
1:09:46	how to do that
1:09:48	this would apply only to larger warming
1:09:51	centers
1:09:52	that would have an
1:09:55	impact on the neighborhood they're in
1:09:57	and that's what we saw when
1:09:58	we had when we dealt with the temporary
1:10:00	use permits this year is that we had a
1:10:02	lot of residential
1:10:04	concerns because a large shelter has
1:10:07	a large impact so
1:10:12	that's kind of the foundation of this
1:10:14	and then chief aims
1:10:16	provided a little feedback and i made
1:10:19	some changes
1:10:20	actually it might look odd because i
1:10:22	made some changes and you're looking at
1:10:24	the changed version
1:10:25	he based on his comments and
1:10:30	the the key comments or the key points
1:10:33	that he had made
1:10:35	were that i had some some language of
1:10:38	creating a 100 a day window in which
1:10:41	they could operate for 90 days and i
1:10:43	just removed that and went to the
1:10:45	back to the like the temporary permit
1:10:47	yeah
1:10:49	did you say 100 days that they
1:10:52	they get 120 days so as the warming
1:10:55	center did this year they picked a four
1:10:56	month period and said we're going to
1:10:57	operate 90 days
1:10:59	within that so i tried to codify that
1:11:02	here
1:11:02	and instead i just took it out and said
1:11:04	90 days in a year
1:11:06	so that 120 days we're seeing is the
1:11:08	window
1:11:09	and you're loving 90 within that window
1:11:12	yeah originally in the first version
1:11:16	yeah the later version well
1:11:20	it's not a calendar no well now it is
1:11:23	now it is now it's 90 days in the
1:11:25	calendar year that's what the proposal
1:11:27	would be
1:11:28	so the same it's the same as it's
1:11:29	operating now
1:11:36	[Music]
1:11:38	um
1:11:44	[Music]
1:11:54	mine says updated in the upper right
1:11:56	hand corner so if you have absolutely
1:11:58	it won't be it would be on the desk not
1:12:00	in the package
1:12:01	the one in the packet i think is the
1:12:03	data version
1:12:07	[Music]
1:12:30	[Music]
1:12:34	another change that the chief was
1:12:37	concerned about was uh
1:12:39	an arbitrary limit an arbitrary
1:12:41	occupancy limit
1:12:42	and i just removed that and the
1:12:45	occupancy would go back to
1:12:46	based on the square footage of the space
1:12:50	um and
1:12:53	i'm sorry sure the original
1:12:56	proposal had an upper limit of the
1:12:59	number of occupants
1:13:00	they could service and i removed that
1:13:04	so it would be go back to the technical
1:13:05	advisory based on one one occupant for
1:13:07	35 square feet
1:13:09	of space
1:13:13	and
1:13:16	and again so the last paragraph in chief
1:13:18	aims uh he talks about
1:13:20	putting um you know unburdening the
1:13:23	center with regulation and
1:13:24	and the response to that is that
1:13:27	this would actually make it easier
1:13:30	because they won't have to come back
1:13:31	every year when they find a location
1:13:33	that they can operate on
1:13:34	and and get a conditional use permit for
1:13:37	it
1:13:41	so that's basically the history of that
1:13:43	[Music]
1:13:45	would love to get commissioner's input
1:13:49	comments thoughts can mention more yes
1:13:53	one question i have would this if we
1:13:55	were to approve this
1:13:57	would it have any impact on the proposed
1:13:59	shelter
1:14:00	in the old finnish boarding house great
1:14:02	question no it would not
1:14:04	and that's why is that so this
1:14:07	this would be a specific conditional use
1:14:09	standard for an emergency warming
1:14:11	shelter as
1:14:11	as defined um
1:14:15	this would create a definition of that
1:14:16	what what the
1:14:18	permanent you know shelter or what is
1:14:21	proposed down
1:14:22	in uniontown wouldn't meet that it would
1:14:25	be
1:14:25	something different so it wouldn't
1:14:27	affect
1:14:29	a permanent shelter
1:14:34	the helping hands
1:14:37	agrees they've talked to us about it and
1:14:41	the the uniontown harvard's building
1:14:44	would be
1:14:45	what they would refer to as a recovery
1:14:47	or re-entry center
1:14:49	rather than rather than an emergency
1:14:53	shelter
1:14:54	it could be could house people for
1:14:58	months is that
1:15:02	um planner morgan is that
1:15:05	kind of use is that a term that's
1:15:07	defined in our development code of
1:15:10	recovery would you say recovery and
1:15:11	re-entry center no i was trying to
1:15:13	figure out how
1:15:14	a building like that would be
1:15:15	categorized versus something like this
1:15:17	well we did struggle with that
1:15:20	and and came up with the category of
1:15:24	semi-public use since it's a
1:15:26	non-profit organization that's operating
1:15:30	a use you know for
1:15:33	for the general public and
1:15:36	that was the in discussing this with
1:15:40	commissioner moore this uh
1:15:43	if we go forward with these amendments
1:15:45	it might be wise to
1:15:47	include uh another category that
1:15:51	that would define you know re-entry or
1:15:55	recovery centers as opposed to
1:16:00	although we have to be somewhat careful
1:16:04	because there are
1:16:05	facilities like that in um you know like
1:16:08	the rose briar
1:16:10	astoria point uh various around around
1:16:13	town in
1:16:14	other in residential neighborhoods as
1:16:17	well
1:16:18	so but that might be something to try to
1:16:20	craft for the
1:16:22	for the photo movements
1:16:25	can you also review for us so what the
1:16:27	stages would be so if we
1:16:29	agree on language that we like we then
1:16:31	make a recommendation that then go to
1:16:32	the city council is that the next step
1:16:34	or is there more stuff to do yeah i
1:16:36	think i think
1:16:38	planning staff would like to have a shot
1:16:40	at it
1:16:41	and and make some make some
1:16:43	recommendations and then
1:16:46	bring you know bring it back to you in
1:16:47	the in the form of a
1:16:50	of a code amendment and then if uh
1:16:53	if you agree if you agree with any
1:16:56	changes
1:16:57	then it goes on in city council
1:17:07	um so just to clarify the conditional
1:17:10	use
1:17:11	once granted for a particular property
1:17:13	would be
1:17:17	[Music]
1:17:24	[Music]
1:17:28	um
1:17:34	[Music]
1:17:42	because i like to edit documents those
1:17:44	are some things i think might clarify
1:17:46	your grammar or tense things like that
1:17:48	it looks pretty amazing especially this
1:17:50	updated version
1:17:51	um i can't think of why this would come
1:17:55	up in the future but
1:17:56	just in case i'm wondering does a
1:17:59	homeless individual a person need to be
1:18:01	an adult
1:18:02	for a dependent juvenile
1:18:06	is there a separate facility for youth
1:18:09	or if they concentrate
1:18:15	these definitions i i think i took
1:18:18	straight out of oregon city's
1:18:20	development code so and they never come
1:18:23	up you know i don't know the city code
1:18:24	would
1:18:27	[Music]
1:18:35	unless they're accompanied by their by
1:18:38	their parents yeah
1:18:39	that's correct show identification
1:18:48	ms griezmann commissioner
1:18:55	i think it looks good
1:19:00	[Music]
1:19:03	no additional
1:19:08	uh i hate to disappoint you know i think
1:19:12	uh commissioner moore i really
1:19:13	appreciate that
1:19:15	uh you put this together so that we have
1:19:18	a framework
1:19:20	yeah because i know uh it's
1:19:23	it will be good to have it down and have
1:19:25	it understood
1:19:27	and not have to rework it all the time
1:19:30	there are two things that i find
1:19:31	problematic and maybe we can maybe we
1:19:34	can work them through
1:19:37	one is the crime watch now i'm guessing
1:19:40	then
1:19:41	when you pulled that from other
1:19:43	jurisdictions
1:19:45	maybe it was located in the middle of
1:19:49	you know what we would
1:19:51	what would we call you know a
1:19:53	crime-ridden neighborhood or something
1:19:58	right now there is one paid staff
1:20:01	and i doubt they're paid very much per
1:20:04	shift
1:20:05	some of them doing you know two or three
1:20:07	shifts at night
1:20:09	and one or two maybe four volunteers
1:20:14	and that neighborhood does not need
1:20:17	right now you say
1:20:19	it says that um i'll go back it's it's
1:20:22	item
1:20:22	4b prime watch
1:20:25	[Music]
1:20:27	to have somebody there for two hours
1:20:29	prior to an
1:20:30	hour after the shelter's operating hours
1:20:33	to watch the neighborhood is a little
1:20:36	bizarre
1:20:37	by the methodist church you know i mean
1:20:40	i've
1:20:40	the only and i have said before that i'm
1:20:43	not a very
1:20:45	i'm not a very noble or consistent
1:20:47	volunteer but i
1:20:48	have volunteered there and i've been i
1:20:51	have done the
1:20:52	beginning shift and the morning cleanup
1:20:54	so i've been there
1:20:56	from 6 45 till 8 or nine
1:21:00	depending upon what needs to be done and
1:21:03	for me
1:21:04	at eight in the morning to clean up
1:21:05	afterward
1:21:07	there's nobody else around
1:21:10	and that you know to pay somebody
1:21:14	to to watch the parking lot by this
1:21:17	beyond the senior center or something
1:21:19	just seems um well i'll say that that
1:21:22	originated from the neighborhood
1:21:24	concerns the letters that we received
1:21:26	that the majority of the neighborhood
1:21:28	[Music]
1:21:30	interruption if you will occurred before
1:21:33	they opened yeah after they i have been
1:21:36	there several times
1:21:38	and um you know things have changed
1:21:42	i think the people are getting more
1:21:44	direction as to what their
1:21:45	what behavior is tolerated what is not
1:21:49	the most i have seen is a couple people
1:21:53	waiting
1:21:54	down the street by that um
1:21:57	it's some sort of a power company or
1:22:00	something that doesn't have any people
1:22:02	around the center
1:22:03	yeah but i don't you know i haven't seen
1:22:06	they don't
1:22:07	pile up they come in bit by bit they
1:22:10	don't
1:22:10	all come and rush in because they now
1:22:13	are
1:22:14	able to be there from come in any time
1:22:16	between
1:22:17	six and eight when they're served so i
1:22:20	don't
1:22:21	you know to have somebody there for two
1:22:22	hours before
1:22:24	um to me is is would you
1:22:28	just recommend removing that all
1:22:29	together yeah i would be i would
1:22:31	or changing it to a neighborhood watch
1:22:34	or something
1:22:36	you know maybe somebody
1:22:39	somebody is usually and should be there
1:22:41	a staff member should be there
1:22:43	15 minutes to half an hour before the
1:22:46	place opens
1:22:48	and for them to
1:22:51	observe what's going on i think is
1:22:54	reasonable but
1:22:55	two hours is just weight remember that
1:22:58	the goal of this conditional use
1:23:02	standard would
1:23:03	would be to so the way they're currently
1:23:07	operating the warming center
1:23:10	they're doing so because they're
1:23:12	choosing to do that
1:23:13	there's we can't the city can't hold
1:23:16	them to any kind of commitment or
1:23:17	agreement
1:23:18	they can't revoke the temporary permit
1:23:23	yeah you know based on something so what
1:23:26	the intention here was to create a
1:23:28	standard that
1:23:30	the center has to operate
1:23:34	so when director cronin
1:23:38	told us that we were going to get a
1:23:40	neighborhood agreement
1:23:42	and we put the meeting off until we read
1:23:44	this neighborhood agreement and then
1:23:47	when we came back we were presented with
1:23:50	a commitment
1:23:51	because for whatever reason it was too
1:23:54	difficult
1:23:56	and to come up with an agreement in the
1:23:58	neighborhood what this is
1:23:59	is a neighborhood agreement so this is
1:24:01	kind of what we were promised
1:24:04	it's something that we can use to ensure
1:24:06	they operate
1:24:08	and this is designed as how they are
1:24:11	operating now
1:24:12	plus a couple of little why two hours
1:24:18	the people who testified against
1:24:22	against the um
1:24:23	[Music]
1:24:25	last year um brought up
1:24:28	that there was loitering outside hours
1:24:31	before
1:24:32	the shoulder open i know one of the
1:24:33	measures to
1:24:35	mitigate that was not having the wi-fi
1:24:37	turned on
1:24:38	prior to opening because people were
1:24:40	hanging out outside using the wi-fi
1:24:48	[Music]
1:24:57	part of the favorite we made two hours
1:25:00	i plucked it out of the air so okay
1:25:03	actually i may
1:25:03	i may have read this uh this may have
1:25:06	come from
1:25:07	a neighborhood agreement from a group of
1:25:10	shelters in portland
1:25:12	okay because i use it so i think one
1:25:13	point is to sort of have somebody who's
1:25:16	patrolling that maybe maybe it is
1:25:18	neighborhood watches not crying watch
1:25:20	but just kind of to
1:25:21	to help with um being responsible for
1:25:26	activities that may be occurring in
1:25:28	relation
1:25:29	to the homeless shelter prior to their
1:25:31	opening for people who are maybe lining
1:25:33	up
1:25:33	waiting they know they're going to go in
1:25:35	in two hours might as well go sit there
1:25:37	and wait
1:25:38	and um there was there were a lot of
1:25:40	complaints about the lawyer
1:25:42	but i think i think that was maybe more
1:25:44	of an issue but as
1:25:46	my my recollection is that
1:25:49	now people can come in at seven and
1:25:51	encourage people
1:25:53	to stage to come in between seven and
1:25:56	eight rather than
1:25:57	wait making everybody wait until eight
1:26:00	because then people back up but
1:26:03	i just you know i'm in the kitchen and
1:26:05	i'm seeing people who
1:26:06	come in and they sign in and that kind
1:26:08	of stuff so
1:26:10	um
1:26:13	there are other people they're opening
1:26:15	outside
1:26:18	well because i go there at 6 45
1:26:21	and there may be no there's not a big
1:26:24	group of people no
1:26:25	there may be three or four down the
1:26:27	street
1:26:28	but i just you know two hours to me
1:26:32	um it just you know
1:26:35	so i would remind commissioner mitchell
1:26:38	that the view from
1:26:39	inside the kitchen or inside the orange
1:26:41	center is different than the view
1:26:42	from yeah someone walking all up to
1:26:46	yeah along the street yeah
1:26:50	yeah someone who lives on one street and
1:26:53	sees looking down
1:26:54	yeah so i don't think that the two hours
1:26:57	in advance
1:26:57	isn't reasonable and i'm
1:27:04	i would say that the existing
1:27:08	neighborhood commitment has helped
1:27:10	immensely
1:27:12	and i i
1:27:15	don't want to go backwards i encountered
1:27:18	the
1:27:19	planning commission what about
1:27:22	during one hour i was just i was
1:27:24	actually going to say
1:27:26	about 30 minutes before and 30 minutes
1:27:27	after yeah that's
1:27:29	it that's i think it's perfect we can
1:27:31	call it a neighborhood
1:27:32	watch not a crime launch from from
1:27:35	practical experience i think that the
1:27:37	two hours is very reasonable
1:27:40	is there anything less sufficient
1:27:42	[Music]
1:27:44	remember this isn't just for a specific
1:27:45	location here
1:27:47	yeah right now or a specific
1:27:49	organization
1:27:50	so right i think an hour
1:27:54	would be reasonable i would agree that
1:27:58	an hour will be reasonable
1:28:00	okay well my other thing
1:28:04	is the parking required parking
1:28:08	off street parking because that's not
1:28:11	going to fit a lot of locations that
1:28:13	might be used for that um again
1:28:16	commissioner mitchell
1:28:17	[Music]
1:28:18	yes yeah i'm sorry it's um it's the very
1:28:22	last i think it's the very last
1:28:24	time it is parking fee on
1:28:28	the fourth page
1:28:35	two off street parking spaces there's i
1:28:38	don't think there's usually two staff
1:28:40	there
1:28:44	and additional off-street parking space
1:28:46	for every
1:28:47	10 individuals accommodated as i again i
1:28:50	think it more relates to
1:28:52	because the people who are being served
1:28:55	don't
1:28:55	drive there in their cars
1:28:58	[Music]
1:29:00	at least from what i've observed they
1:29:03	we pretty effectively got rid of the
1:29:07	people parking in the parking lot with
1:29:09	you know and sleeping in their cars i
1:29:11	don't even know more than i
1:29:13	because you're there but um
1:29:16	you know that when i get there there may
1:29:19	be
1:29:19	two cars in front of me and then one car
1:29:22	comes behind me at most along and it's
1:29:26	across
1:29:27	across the street from the church and
1:29:30	when i leave
1:29:31	you know it's just still it's like three
1:29:33	bars
1:29:34	and i don't i just don't uh
1:29:38	the places where this is likely to be
1:29:40	located again
1:29:42	in astoria which is probably different
1:29:45	than portland
1:29:46	i don't see a need for that requirement
1:29:48	because
1:29:50	it's apparent from my
1:29:53	observation and again yours is going to
1:29:55	be different
1:29:56	um that parking space is not used at
1:29:59	night particularly
1:30:01	those those spaces right across from the
1:30:03	church
1:30:05	so i would i would say um
1:30:08	you know i just wouldn't make that
1:30:12	requirement for off street parking
1:30:14	spaces because in astoria wasn't built
1:30:18	with
1:30:18	cars in mind and i don't have any
1:30:21	trouble
1:30:22	removing the parking requirements okay
1:30:23	that's and everything else
1:30:25	it's not up to me to touch everyone so
1:30:28	it's not
1:30:29	you know while i have made this proposal
1:30:32	this i want to be a group
1:30:34	decision so please everyone join me in
1:30:36	my concern would be this one of the
1:30:37	appropriate locations for
1:30:39	other homeless emergency shelters
1:30:42	potentially the location is perfect but
1:30:45	there
1:30:46	is no nearby off street parking and
1:30:50	it would be unobtainable and therefore
1:30:53	make the potential space
1:30:57	unqualifiable
1:31:00	i like the idea of um
1:31:03	accommodating for parking but it does
1:31:05	seem unnecessary
1:31:14	i'm sorry i'm good with your living
1:31:16	department required
1:31:19	okay i have a few things
1:31:23	um one thing uh first thing that kind of
1:31:26	jumped out at me
1:31:27	um also thank you for doing this work
1:31:29	it's really good to have us um
1:31:30	to actually be able to have a discussion
1:31:32	um about this
1:31:34	the just the language of emergency
1:31:36	shelter i felt like that wasn't
1:31:37	um quite the right term and we've heard
1:31:39	you know we're all using different terms
1:31:41	and talking about what we're talking
1:31:42	about
1:31:43	for me just emergency shelters you know
1:31:45	means something like it there's a
1:31:46	natural disaster a place where everybody
1:31:48	goes
1:31:49	i would just i would there's different
1:31:51	language i think makes sense
1:31:52	we talked about emergency homeless
1:31:53	shelter emergency warming center
1:31:55	i think anything like that might be good
1:31:57	options just to be a little bit more
1:31:58	specific
1:32:00	um so i feel like we might at some point
1:32:02	want to want to talk about
1:32:03	emergency shelters for natural disasters
1:32:06	i don't want to
1:32:06	use up this term um for that necessarily
1:32:12	[Music]
1:32:14	we also might like to use the word
1:32:15	household instead of family i was
1:32:17	looking at some kind of similar language
1:32:19	in portland's code just because family
1:32:22	means different things people live in
1:32:23	different kinds of groups but household
1:32:24	might be a nice name
1:32:25	or a nice subject
1:32:33	how about temporary shelter instead of
1:32:34	emergency i guess an option too
1:32:37	that's the subject of the oregon fire
1:32:39	codes
1:32:40	technical advisory was temporary
1:32:42	shelters
1:32:44	that sound appropriate
1:32:49	i'm sorry what was that how about
1:32:51	temporary shelter
1:32:53	[Music]
1:33:04	if jennifer's done
1:33:10	um i the um the crime watch um part
1:33:14	jumped out at me too
1:33:15	maybe um made me want to find a
1:33:17	different name for that as well since
1:33:18	we've seen this easy what we're talking
1:33:19	about is lloyd arena gathering yeah um
1:33:22	more than grind um
1:33:25	i like neighborhood watch this that
1:33:27	would that would be the concern
1:33:28	right yeah that's good um the garbage
1:33:31	watch i just
1:33:32	felt like we um might want to add a
1:33:34	little bit of language
1:33:36	let's make sure cameron can you tell us
1:33:38	which portion
1:33:39	can you sorry i'm on number four okay
1:33:43	a the garbage watch um
1:33:46	just as it says right now it's just
1:33:48	during non-operating hours in general
1:33:51	and i think we're talking about
1:33:52	specifically on days following
1:33:54	a night when the shelter was open so
1:33:57	some things i don't think you mean every
1:33:59	day
1:34:00	right or yeah it happened three days
1:34:02	later
1:34:05	[Music]
1:34:12	[Music]
1:34:16	on in the life safety requirements
1:34:20	um on weapons so a
1:34:25	so 5a number one um
1:34:28	it seems to assume that it's not
1:34:29	possible to legally carry a concealed
1:34:31	handgun
1:34:36	uh i thought somebody had strong
1:34:37	feelings about it i just kind of
1:34:38	wondered it says that anyone that was
1:34:40	carrying a weapon
1:34:41	that should be reported to police is not
1:34:43	necessarily a
1:34:44	crime
1:34:54	but they don't necessarily need to be
1:34:55	reported if they're legally
1:34:57	illegally have a gun
1:35:12	whatever the term is or something that's
1:35:15	unpermitted
1:35:15	right number two makes sense but number
1:35:17	one kind of left out of the reality part
1:35:19	yeah i mean i find with the confiscating
1:35:22	take out that contact
1:35:24	yeah or that or add in an unlicensed
1:35:27	weapon
1:35:28	um oh wait no you're right or take out
1:35:31	the contact part
1:35:34	or change it to say if it's i mean we
1:35:37	can have
1:35:37	other language that says any illegal
1:35:39	activity should be reported
1:35:41	um that just doubted me
1:35:45	um i also have the same parking question
1:35:49	but i think that's
1:35:49	we're on the same page about that um you
1:35:52	know honestly i suspect that
1:35:55	the planning department might come back
1:35:57	with challenges on on the whole weapon
1:35:59	thing anyway sure as this is
1:36:01	america
1:36:05	um lastly i would just like you to talk
1:36:06	a little bit about your
1:36:08	reasoning for the zones that you chose
1:36:11	because if i'm not mistaken
1:36:12	the zones you chose would not allow the
1:36:14	current warning center to
1:36:17	operate they don't include residential
1:36:19	donors correct
1:36:20	and that's not the case in all other
1:36:22	cities
1:36:24	or other cities in oregon that have a
1:36:26	lot of these kind of shelters
1:36:28	i haven't read all of the development
1:36:30	codes so i can't
1:36:31	answer that um
1:36:32	[Music]
1:36:35	our last temporary use of hearing i mean
1:36:38	we
1:36:38	it was about impacting the residential
1:36:42	zones
1:36:43	and the only thing i pulled from our
1:36:46	development code
1:36:47	which was in the comprehensive plan was
1:36:49	to protect
1:36:50	the residential zones from incompatible
1:36:52	uses
1:36:53	now i understand the value
1:36:57	of these temporary shelters and i think
1:37:01	that what what we've encountered
1:37:05	is that the scale is impacting the
1:37:08	residential neighborhoods
1:37:10	a smaller shelter which which is why we
1:37:13	had
1:37:13	added the 10 10 or more a smaller
1:37:17	shelter would not have the same
1:37:18	impact as 40 or 50 people
1:37:22	so the larger shelter which would be
1:37:26	permitted through the conditional youth
1:37:28	standard would
1:37:30	not be in a residential neighborhood
1:37:31	because that's what's been identified as
1:37:33	negatively impacting the neighborhood
1:37:36	the location
1:37:38	where the warming shelter is now could
1:37:40	still operate as a warming shelter it
1:37:42	would just have to be a smaller scale
1:37:44	and all the churches in that
1:37:46	neighborhood could get together and
1:37:48	house 40 people
1:37:49	just as long as there's 10 in each
1:37:52	location so really it's it's about
1:37:57	the impact a larger scale shelter
1:38:00	has on the immediate neighborhood that
1:38:03	was part of the impetus for creating
1:38:06	this
1:38:08	and the zones identified also are near
1:38:11	nearer services and locations that are
1:38:15	more commonly utilized by
1:38:19	the folks that use a warming shelter
1:38:21	also
1:38:27	commissioner herman thank you so
1:38:30	commissioner moore thank you also for
1:38:32	all of your work
1:38:34	since i am new on the commission what do
1:38:35	you explain what those
1:38:37	five zones are yeah i don't understand
1:38:40	the abbreviation
1:38:42	um
1:38:54	[Music]
1:38:56	is but
1:38:59	basically
1:39:04	yeah but it doesn't show the zombies i i
1:39:06	think i could describe
1:39:08	describe it more just off the top of my
1:39:11	head
1:39:12	the the age hc
1:39:15	zone is basically the hospital in the
1:39:18	cancer center
1:39:20	the c3 zone is all of the
1:39:24	kind of general commercial zone that
1:39:26	stretches along
1:39:27	marine drive uh both on um
1:39:31	on this side of the hill and around
1:39:35	to the to the west side to the dairy
1:39:38	queen
1:39:40	hr is it's one of the mill ponds
1:39:44	it's a very small mill pond zone i think
1:39:47	where that walter scott
1:39:49	cleaning supplies is ls is the local
1:39:53	service zone that you just looked at
1:39:55	for the expansion of the co-op
1:39:59	and s2 is a
1:40:02	tourist related commercial zone that is
1:40:06	basically stretches
1:40:08	towards from astoria warehousing down
1:40:12	to the port to the red line
1:40:17	those are the zones
1:40:20	thank you um so if we were
1:40:23	if these um
1:40:26	requirements were approved the warming
1:40:29	center as it is now
1:40:30	could not continue not not at the same
1:40:33	scale
1:40:34	a smaller version of it could be
1:40:36	residential
1:40:37	yeah i i just don't think it's realistic
1:40:39	to have several of the churches taken
1:40:41	into
1:40:41	slack no i don't either and i'm not
1:40:45	i understand it's a lot of impact on one
1:40:47	neighborhood
1:40:49	but then it would be distributing the
1:40:52	impact into several neighborhoods
1:40:53	potentially
1:40:54	[Music]
1:40:56	that's just one thought but that's not
1:40:58	necessarily a reason not to
1:41:00	go ahead with these requirements but a
1:41:02	more general
1:41:04	comment is that now since the warming
1:41:07	center is required to get a permit every
1:41:09	year
1:41:10	we have a fairly big carrot or stick
1:41:13	depending on how you want to look at it
1:41:16	over them so that for example this last
1:41:19	year
1:41:20	um they had to draft the
1:41:23	commitment with the neighborhood and
1:41:25	from what i understand
1:41:26	things are going better certainly not
1:41:29	perfect but
1:41:29	they are much better from what i
1:41:31	understand so
1:41:33	i kind of favor requiring them to
1:41:36	continue doing that because if they have
1:41:37	a conditional use permit
1:41:39	they've got that permit forever don't
1:41:41	they for that use yeah for that location
1:41:44	so if if they were not um well applied
1:41:49	but if they're not complying then
1:41:50	there's there's enforcement options
1:41:52	through the development code currently
1:41:53	there aren't
1:41:54	enforcement options to the development
1:41:56	code it would have to be
1:41:57	you know okay
1:42:00	every year that seems like pretty good
1:42:02	incentive for them to
1:42:04	be on their best behavior so to speak
1:42:08	exactly sorry
1:42:12	the temporary use they would
1:42:15	if if you adopted if the council adopted
1:42:18	these
1:42:19	um they wouldn't be applying for
1:42:21	temporary use anymore
1:42:23	unless unless you specifically
1:42:26	grandfathered them
1:42:28	i think there's a point
1:42:31	there's been a lot of work to do with
1:42:34	done a lot of work
1:42:35	to maintain good neighborhood relations
1:42:38	in order to
1:42:39	renew every year and another entity
1:42:43	who is at the esport or women's center
1:42:45	to come in and open and
1:42:47	shut a very homeless shelter
1:42:50	um a different location have
1:42:54	basically permanent residence there
1:42:58	based on the conditional use and
1:43:01	maybe not behave however as commissioner
1:43:03	moore pointed out
1:43:05	it it could be enforceable so
1:43:08	i'm not sure what that looks like
1:43:11	uh if they're in violation of the city
1:43:14	code if they can get
1:43:15	shut down or evicted is that the way
1:43:17	that
1:43:22	maybe planner morgan could comment on
1:43:26	sure i mean conditional uses if you're
1:43:28	not living up to the specific
1:43:30	requirement you have to meet the
1:43:33	conditions and if you're
1:43:34	in violation you know you have to
1:43:37	correct in some way or
1:43:38	you're out and and the same way with the
1:43:41	timber
1:43:41	the temporary use was that that wasn't i
1:43:44	i wasn't here but
1:43:45	that was the conditional use yeah
1:43:47	sometimes it's just a temporary
1:43:49	temporary and there's really
1:44:05	bound by that i
1:44:08	would just say that you know somehow it
1:44:10	was not
1:44:11	tracking that in fact putting these
1:44:15	in these particular zones makes
1:44:19	it makes you lose that warming center
1:44:22	and there's been an investment there in
1:44:24	terms of
1:44:26	putting a shower that people can use and
1:44:29	they do use
1:44:31	laundry facilities so they can wash
1:44:33	their clothes
1:44:35	so if they're going out for a job
1:44:37	interview or they're
1:44:39	as some are attending classes at the on
1:44:42	a community college or whatever
1:44:45	and they're you know that all that setup
1:44:47	is there
1:44:48	and it is very hard to get enough
1:44:50	volunteers
1:44:52	regularly to staff that place and there
1:44:56	are nights when it's been very cold
1:44:57	where
1:44:58	they're missing one slot and couldn't
1:45:02	open the place so if you try to split
1:45:05	that
1:45:05	up i mean the
1:45:09	the only places that you are likely to
1:45:12	get
1:45:13	organizations to agree to
1:45:16	put themselves through that our trenches
1:45:21	in this in this town at least and
1:45:26	pretty much leave all of them out as
1:45:28	possibilities
1:45:30	so you kind of
1:45:34	for one thing i mean i don't think it's
1:45:36	functional
1:45:37	to have a multitude of 10 person
1:45:40	places because you still need staff
1:45:43	there
1:45:44	you still need volunteers you still need
1:45:46	to
1:45:47	contact local restaurants to get them to
1:45:49	help with food
1:45:50	and there's just all that organization
1:45:52	that goes on
1:45:55	and then that's required because of the
1:45:58	scale
1:45:59	of the warming center currently no
1:46:01	that's not well
1:46:02	and also because of their choice to
1:46:04	serve food when when this was brought
1:46:06	uh in front of city council four or five
1:46:08	years ago
1:46:09	it was going to be broth served to
1:46:11	people when temperature
1:46:13	broth and coffee served to people when
1:46:15	temperatures dropped below 35 degrees
1:46:18	it was strictly a warm there was
1:46:21	strictly a warming center and
1:46:23	it didn't provide all the rest of these
1:46:25	services
1:46:26	but that's a you don't see those as good
1:46:29	things that
1:46:30	we're not saying yeah we're not
1:46:32	discussing whether it's good or bad
1:46:34	[Music]
1:46:36	and i think it's important to note that
1:46:40	as far as things appear to be going it's
1:46:42	very likely that
1:46:44	this is going to become more and more
1:46:45	permanent every year
1:46:47	the needs for shelters like this yeah
1:46:50	right and building a network of shelters
1:46:55	are how are you going to get volunteers
1:46:57	should you have like 100
1:46:58	people volunteering there to just barely
1:47:02	for a large for a large scale shelter
1:47:06	well i i recognize economies of scale
1:47:09	and how a large
1:47:10	shelter is easier
1:47:14	um than a network of smaller ones okay
1:47:17	but
1:47:19	what i don't want to see happen is
1:47:23	an invasion of a neighborhood by a
1:47:25	growing
1:47:28	shelter and i don't think anyone
1:47:31	in here thinks that homelessness
1:47:35	is going away in a year or two and in
1:47:38	fact a lot of us might think that
1:47:40	that it's going to grow and
1:47:44	my concerns are that we we've already
1:47:46	had to deal with
1:47:48	very upset neighbors coming in in
1:47:51	residential zones
1:47:53	and if this problem problem if this
1:47:57	issue is growing
1:48:00	i'm very reluctant to let a larger and
1:48:03	growing
1:48:04	shelter establish in residential zones
1:48:09	well i don't think um i would much
1:48:12	rather at this point if there
1:48:14	and i know that there was some
1:48:15	investment this year and
1:48:18	what i don't want to see is further
1:48:19	investment in a location that might not
1:48:22	work out in the long run
1:48:23	maybe there can be investment into a
1:48:25	location that is
1:48:26	permanent a more permanent location as
1:48:29	opposed to
1:48:30	at the whim of a planning commission in
1:48:32	a year i mean
1:48:33	next year there might be seven people on
1:48:35	this commission that
1:48:37	that don't want anything how do you
1:48:38	perceive that happening though that
1:48:40	people are just going to kind of spring
1:48:42	up with
1:48:43	several little 10 person shelters and
1:48:46	they're going to be volunteers there's a
1:48:47	great network
1:48:48	there's a great network of small
1:48:50	shelters in portland
1:48:52	but we're only 10 000 people i
1:48:54	understand
1:48:55	yeah i mean that's we are
1:48:58	yeah we're not comparable to portland in
1:49:01	any way
1:49:05	[Music]
1:49:10	the church is
1:49:16	[Music]
1:49:26	um
1:49:31	to the list could there be a provision
1:49:35	under our greed that requires
1:49:39	that the applicant must reapply
1:49:44	for conditional use if they propose to
1:49:47	grow in square footage or
1:49:48	increased homeless number of homeless
1:49:54	then you know what you're getting and
1:49:56	they can't grow without yeah
1:49:58	there's only a you know digital use
1:50:00	there's only so much space
1:50:02	you know you're done you can't stack
1:50:05	people
1:50:06	well but then it would prevent them from
1:50:08	saying
1:50:14	[Music]
1:50:21	you know i think a limitation on how
1:50:24	many
1:50:24	people can be served we've already got
1:50:27	that that's just
1:50:28	the limitations so you know
1:50:31	they were to propose an increased square
1:50:36	footage
1:50:38	[Music]
1:50:47	[Music]
1:50:48	current space
1:50:52	i'm sure some people in the neighborhood
1:50:53	would be glad because we heard a lot of
1:50:56	testimony
1:50:56	against the allowing the particular use
1:51:00	however if the last year has improved
1:51:03	the relations and improved
1:51:07	[Music]
1:51:14	i'm sorry could you repeat your lesson
1:51:17	if the neighborhood is happier with the
1:51:19	current situation
1:51:20	in the current year then um
1:51:24	potentially this the current site is
1:51:27	is an ideal location and it would
1:51:32	it would be i think it'd be a big deal
1:51:33	to lose that location
1:51:34	[Music]
1:51:38	something else just occurred to me if
1:51:41	this kind of code language is defining
1:51:44	these kind of temporary
1:51:45	homeless shelters and identifying in
1:51:48	which zones
1:51:49	they would be allowed as conditional use
1:51:51	but that wouldn't necessarily
1:51:53	change the ability of an organization to
1:51:56	have one as a temporary use
1:51:58	in for example an r3 zone because
1:52:00	temporary uses still
1:52:02	are conditional temporary uses are used
1:52:05	when there isn't
1:52:06	there isn't a defined use so if this is
1:52:08	defined in the
1:52:10	code right okay will we have an
1:52:13	opportunity to have a public hearing and
1:52:16	hear from
1:52:17	residents in the neighborhood i'd like
1:52:18	to hear how it's been going this year
1:52:20	for more than
1:52:21	just the i would that i've spoken yeah
1:52:23	i'm curious about that too
1:52:25	i have you know i i volunteered down
1:52:27	there and
1:52:28	it was a nice experience and but i
1:52:31	haven't
1:52:32	other than anecdotes you know i have no
1:52:34	idea how it's going overall
1:52:39	though sure i mean the way this works is
1:52:42	that once you get come to agreement on
1:52:45	the language that you want then we'll
1:52:48	advertise it i mean we could advertise
1:52:50	it for the march
1:52:52	planning commission meeting if you want
1:52:55	and then we advertise it as a public
1:52:58	hearing and
1:53:00	actually um i think we have to
1:53:03	we have to send a notice to um
1:53:06	in the water bills because it's it's uh
1:53:09	it affects the entire
1:53:11	community it's not just one neighborhood
1:53:14	but you know through the press and
1:53:16	whatever you know the word would get out
1:53:18	but the hearing
1:53:20	would be held you'd make your decision
1:53:22	and then pass it along to the city
1:53:24	council for
1:53:24	and they'll that they have to hold here
1:53:28	so i mean i would be interested in
1:53:33	in adding r3 as um as a zone to be
1:53:36	considered
1:53:37	and then to hear feedback from the
1:53:39	community the people that live in the r3
1:53:41	zone
1:53:42	whether we think that that's appropriate
1:53:44	or not
1:53:47	well this all stemmed
1:53:52	from the r3 not wanting it so
1:53:55	i mean to a particular archery community
1:53:58	having a particular experience as we
1:54:00	said might not be the experience they're
1:54:01	continuing to have
1:54:03	i would just be interested to hear more
1:54:05	from sure
1:54:06	in it seems like that's the kind of best
1:54:10	candidate if we're going to look at
1:54:11	where
1:54:12	um where some of these organizations
1:54:15	that are
1:54:16	that are most likely to take on these
1:54:17	kind of community service projects are
1:54:19	would be in an r3 zone so you're
1:54:21	suggesting that we should
1:54:24	operate warming centers in other r3
1:54:27	zones and see how that
1:54:28	works out i'm i'm saying that i'm that
1:54:31	that in order to kind of get the
1:54:32	conversation
1:54:34	going the in here now on the scene um
1:54:38	to try to draw our three residents in
1:54:41	to comment because if it's excluded then
1:54:44	then they won't feel exactly
1:54:46	so maybe we could say that it would be
1:54:49	added at a
1:54:50	later time yeah if it's tried it or it
1:54:53	gives the option to
1:54:54	to experiment in other r3 zones or other
1:54:58	locations that are r3 zone and
1:55:02	see how it works there let's see yeah i
1:55:05	kind of don't know what the language
1:55:06	what
1:55:06	what the most appropriate language is um
1:55:09	i feel like i need to hear
1:55:10	more before i can have a sense of
1:55:13	whether i think that r3 should be
1:55:14	considered
1:55:15	included in this language or not so i'm
1:55:17	just trying to think of ways to
1:55:18	um to elicit that response at the
1:55:22	at this early conversational stage okay
1:55:25	so i think that it would be useful to
1:55:27	have a discussion about
1:55:28	um you know amongst us and then amongst
1:55:30	um you know the contents of the public
1:55:32	hearing
1:55:33	about whether this whether we have a
1:55:35	consensus that this is or is not
1:55:36	appropriate for our three
1:55:38	well segwaying from that uh we are
1:55:40	coming up on another hour
1:55:42	of having sat and we have some people in
1:55:45	the audience that might want to speak
1:55:47	um this might be a good time to get
1:55:49	input from the audience
1:55:51	and then the idea and then we would
1:55:53	recess
1:55:54	and then come back and speak and so i
1:55:56	would say
1:55:58	this isn't a public hearing so i don't
1:55:59	have to open it i would just simply ask
1:56:01	if there's anyone
1:56:02	in the audience that would like to speak
1:56:05	and again if they could keep their
1:56:07	comments limited to three minutes that
1:56:09	would be great if you feel you need to
1:56:11	go over that would be
1:56:14	we wouldn't consider that as well
1:56:23	hi i'm annie martin i live up the street
1:56:25	[Music]
1:56:28	if you could give your address for the
1:56:30	record 10 24 grand
1:56:32	thank you you answered most of my
1:56:35	questions so i appreciate that
1:56:37	um i just i had an issue with all the
1:56:41	zones as well because it limits
1:56:43	an organized organization such as
1:56:46	warming center for purchasing any land
1:56:48	because there's no
1:56:49	land available in the zone nor are there
1:56:51	buildings that are affordable
1:56:53	for those kinds of organizations yeah so
1:56:56	that kind of wipes the warming center
1:56:59	off
1:57:00	however on the flip side if you're doing
1:57:02	if churches can continue to
1:57:04	serve 10 or less and
1:57:07	you have them in one block area which we
1:57:09	do right up here on the corner
1:57:11	if we had all of those churches having
1:57:14	10 or less it's going to be the same
1:57:16	amount of unsheltered community members
1:57:20	that are in that neighborhood
1:57:21	so that's not going to be any different
1:57:23	from what it's actually happening now
1:57:25	the warming center i just thought i'd
1:57:26	and then
1:57:27	so would you suggest spreading it out
1:57:29	throughout the city in different
1:57:30	churches
1:57:31	well i'm just saying we could still have
1:57:32	it in the same area
1:57:35	if that's gonna be the codes it's just
1:57:38	going to be
1:57:39	three churches that are all within a
1:57:41	block if that's what you're saying
1:57:43	if that's going to be in the coding
1:57:46	world
1:57:48	this conditional use standard would
1:57:50	apply to
1:57:52	warming centers who have more than 10.
1:57:55	right
1:57:55	so someone who wished to operate a
1:57:57	temporary shelter with 10 or fewer
1:58:00	correct that would be up to this city to
1:58:03	determine whether they
1:58:04	still need a temporary use or okay so
1:58:07	they can just operate under the radar i
1:58:09	know historically
1:58:10	a lot of those just operate
1:58:14	so if there were 10 or less you'd have
1:58:16	to go through the whole
1:58:17	public hearing in the whole temporary i
1:58:19	don't i don't know that that's true
1:58:21	statement you
1:58:22	you could just operate i don't you know
1:58:24	the warming center operated for quite a
1:58:25	few years without a temporary use
1:58:27	permit until they grew to a scale where
1:58:30	they were impacting the neighborhood and
1:58:31	then the city had to get involved and so
1:58:34	this
1:58:34	has come from that right partially to
1:58:38	prevent
1:58:39	continued growth and continued impact on
1:58:42	the neighborhood that was
1:58:44	that when it reached the scale that it
1:58:45	has now
1:58:47	that's when there were serious concerns
1:58:49	about it disrupting the neighborhood
1:58:51	and so part of this would be to
1:58:54	ensure that it doesn't continue to grow
1:58:58	but i don't know how many how much how
1:59:00	many more square feet they have in their
1:59:02	services to an amount of square feet and
1:59:04	because
1:59:05	and historic church they can't really
1:59:07	add any rooms or anything
1:59:10	yeah so um
1:59:13	again i think that's all i have to say
1:59:15	thanks
1:59:17	thank you miss martin
1:59:25	hi my name is ron maxted at
1:59:28	3596 street astoria
1:59:31	um first of all i'd like to thank you
1:59:33	very much
1:59:34	for thinking about the warming center
1:59:38	i mean i appreciate all the guys have
1:59:41	done and i think you've given us
1:59:43	guidance
1:59:44	that we needed we certainly needed
1:59:47	awareness
1:59:48	that we were impacting the neighborhood
1:59:51	and i think we this year have tried to
1:59:57	implement your uh
2:00:00	your guidance we are not
2:00:03	permitting people to to gather before
2:00:07	entering we're discourage them
2:00:10	not to stand in front of the place and
2:00:13	to
2:00:14	you know to wait until they're open
2:00:17	to come in and so we are trying not to
2:00:21	have
2:00:22	you know problems that we had last year
2:00:27	as far as the another aspect
2:00:30	is that i would certainly like to see
2:00:32	included
2:00:34	in this um document the r3 zone
2:00:38	because we are in the r3 zone
2:00:41	and um i would not want that to be
2:00:46	you know to be excluded and or to be
2:00:49	down to just
2:00:50	10 people i think we're kind of capped
2:00:53	at
2:00:54	we're now getting we're averaging 25
2:00:57	people
2:00:58	last year was 35 and i think
2:01:00	implementing
2:01:01	all that we've done not having not
2:01:03	staying open all the time
2:01:05	has discouraged people from coming from
2:01:07	other places
2:01:08	but we seem to have this this
2:01:12	resident population that you know
2:01:15	that's been averaging 25 for this this
2:01:18	season
2:01:20	another aspect is that the crime watch
2:01:25	i would like to see that or calling it a
2:01:28	neighborhood watch
2:01:29	that's that's that's fine
2:01:32	i think a half hour before and a half
2:01:35	hour after
2:01:36	would be reasonable
2:01:40	there is
2:01:45	we haven't had any crime that i know i'm
2:01:48	not sure
2:01:49	that that there's been any crime
2:01:52	reported
2:01:53	you know something happening that's
2:01:55	actually criminal
2:01:56	due to our uh warming center
2:02:00	so i i feel that
2:02:05	we want to specify that we have a half
2:02:08	hour
2:02:08	before and after to stand out there to
2:02:12	to monitor things that seems to be
2:02:16	i would feel
2:02:19	practical to do
2:02:23	but and
2:02:26	locating it in other locations it would
2:02:29	be great
2:02:30	if we could you know get into a place
2:02:33	[Music]
2:02:35	other than than where we are into a
2:02:41	commercial zone or something like that
2:02:42	but
2:02:44	that's not happening right now i think
2:02:46	we have to deal with
2:02:47	what's what's currently happening
2:02:50	uh dealing with the people that we have
2:02:53	today
2:02:54	and uh we're certainly still on the
2:02:58	lookout
2:02:58	for other places but
2:03:02	so anyway so thank you very much
2:03:06	thank you mr maxton
2:03:21	greetings of chairman commissioners
2:03:24	my name is george mccarthy i live in 490
2:03:26	franklin avenue
2:03:28	in this area i want to begin by
2:03:34	simply for the record it won't make any
2:03:36	difference but
2:03:37	for the future record uh
2:03:42	this is an extraordinary and unusual
2:03:46	procedure for amending any codes
2:03:49	as far as i can recall we have a
2:03:55	commissioner himself and you have
2:03:58	approved this
2:04:01	basically making up the framework for
2:04:03	the code
2:04:05	it's been my experience over almost 13
2:04:08	years that
2:04:10	the way this is done is it begins with
2:04:12	staff
2:04:13	and then they come and present it to you
2:04:16	to make some changes
2:04:19	or to make the final decision
2:04:28	there's no mention in the i'll go to
2:04:36	olympia b
2:04:39	there's no mention of showers or laundry
2:04:42	i don't know if that means you can't
2:04:46	challenge or not
2:04:53	and then as far as the
2:04:58	size every individual
2:05:02	i'm sorry down to
2:05:05	part three the maximum number of
2:05:09	occupants the maximum the maximum number
2:05:12	of
2:05:13	allowable occupants shall be calculated
2:05:17	using
2:05:17	the factor of one individual for every
2:05:20	35 square feet
2:05:21	[Music]
2:05:25	that's exceeding already
2:05:28	what presently exists which means in
2:05:31	order to operate in that
2:05:32	facility you have to get permission from
2:05:34	the church which is
2:05:36	my understanding rather reluctant to
2:05:40	let us expand into an area that would
2:05:43	then maybe be able to raise that up to
2:05:45	35 square feet
2:05:49	the one that is
2:05:53	really troubling is the life safety
2:05:56	requirements
2:05:59	that's under five life safety
2:06:01	requirements weapons
2:06:04	uh we've been compensating all weapons
2:06:08	without too much to do for the past four
2:06:12	years
2:06:12	the operations been going um
2:06:16	but now we're saying you will not admit
2:06:19	them into the shelter even
2:06:22	if they have a firearm now you know
2:06:25	there's an awful lot of people with
2:06:26	firearms
2:06:27	i don't know how many of you have
2:06:28	firearms permanence reform
2:06:31	permits for concealed weapons are you
2:06:34	saying that the
2:06:35	homeless people are not allowed to have
2:06:38	a permit or do i have a gun at all
2:06:42	we don't want them to you know have them
2:06:44	on the person when they're in the
2:06:46	shelter
2:06:47	and they in fact we have a lot of docks
2:06:50	where everything goes and it's work
2:06:55	and especially disconcerting is that if
2:06:57	you find out they have a firearm
2:07:00	you have to contact the astoria police
2:07:03	department on what basis
2:07:06	on what basis would you contact because
2:07:08	they're a homeless person or what
2:07:10	if i see you coming down the street with
2:07:12	a firearm
2:07:15	are you going to call the cops i don't
2:07:17	think so
2:07:38	and the parking spaces of course are
2:07:41	somewhat ridiculous
2:07:42	you either went down and you see maybe
2:07:43	one car there two at the most
2:07:46	and one car is probably the staff and
2:07:49	the other car is
2:07:52	from the uh breakfast next door because
2:07:55	they don't have a lot of parking and
2:07:57	they let them
2:07:58	their cars parked in the church parking
2:07:59	lot thank you very much
2:08:01	thank you mr mccartney
2:08:05	anyone else
2:08:12	[Music]
2:08:18	i'm lois dupay i gave you my address
2:08:24	i appreciate that a lot of work has gone
2:08:26	into this and it's actually come a long
2:08:28	way
2:08:28	since the first iterations of
2:08:32	what i saw before
2:08:36	so thanks for all your work and for
2:08:38	listening to the community about this
2:08:40	because
2:08:41	i have to agree with daryl moore this
2:08:44	problem is not going to go away anytime
2:08:46	soon if anything it will
2:08:48	increase given what's going on in our
2:08:51	society
2:08:53	but it's a good start and it's good that
2:08:57	this is
2:08:58	being organized i think
2:09:01	we'll see if there's other facilities
2:09:04	that end up
2:09:05	taking this on as well i i think you
2:09:07	should call it an emergency
2:09:09	warming center because
2:09:12	it's really not a shelter it's only
2:09:15	there
2:09:16	when the weather's bad um
2:09:21	that's a minor thing but
2:09:24	the more this can be tied together i
2:09:26	feel like it could be a template
2:09:29	as the problem grows you're going to
2:09:32	need a template
2:09:33	the only real objection i have to what's
2:09:36	in here other than what's already been
2:09:37	stated
2:09:38	speaks for itself is the way the clients
2:09:42	are being described
2:09:46	the definition homeless homeless
2:09:49	individual
2:09:50	homeless person homeless family
2:09:56	this may come as some surprise to you
2:09:58	but a lot of the people being served
2:10:00	in this facility and others that may
2:10:03	develop
2:10:04	are not actually homeless some of them
2:10:07	have homes
2:10:10	i think you need to get to the root
2:10:13	of who you are serving and why
2:10:18	the clients are people who
2:10:22	are families and individuals
2:10:25	experiencing housing inequality
2:10:29	for whatever reason that doesn't mean
2:10:33	that they don't have a place it doesn't
2:10:36	mean
2:10:36	that they're not human beings because
2:10:39	they might sleep in their rv
2:10:42	the word homeless to a lot of people in
2:10:45	the
2:10:45	community of what i call the
2:10:47	disenfranchised
2:10:50	is kind of like the n-word
2:10:53	and you might want to think about it
2:10:55	that way and i would ask that you remove
2:10:57	it from all of your
2:10:59	your thing and use the term
2:11:03	those experiencing housing inequality
2:11:08	because that's really who they are
2:11:11	a lot of them have homes places to live
2:11:15	but in your definition here
2:11:19	i think it's a good start the first
2:11:21	point an adult individual or family
2:11:24	consisting of at least one adult
2:11:27	and one or more dependent juveniles
2:11:30	but then change it to say to whom a
2:11:33	fixed
2:11:34	regular and adequate nighttime residence
2:11:38	is not currently available
2:11:41	why do you need more than that the next
2:11:42	paragraph is insulting
2:11:45	it is overly burdens
2:11:49	burdensome it doesn't add anything
2:11:52	but it dehumanizes your client
2:11:56	and that's all i can think
2:12:00	thank you mr pay okay for the record
2:12:04	commissioner mitchell had to leave at 8
2:12:07	37
2:12:08	and we are going to recess for five
2:12:11	minutes
2:12:12	we'll be back currently 8 41 we'll be
2:12:14	back at 8 46.
2:12:40	what do you think
2:12:49	[Music]
2:13:00	[Music]
2:13:14	gist
2:13:27	i don't know
2:13:30	[Music]
2:13:45	all right
2:14:16	[Music]
2:14:38	the major you know blocks of r3
2:14:43	r3
2:14:47	[Music]
2:14:51	well i mean it is you know
2:14:56	[Music]
2:15:04	[Music]
2:15:22	[Music]
2:15:35	[Music]
2:15:41	[Music]
2:15:49	[Music]
2:15:58	[Music]
2:16:02	um
2:16:11	[Music]
2:16:25	[Music]
2:16:31	yes
2:16:33	[Music]
2:16:44	um
2:16:49	[Music]
2:16:58	um
2:17:10	[Music]
2:17:15	all right we're we are reconvening
2:17:18	at 8 47 pm
2:17:22	so we don't have
2:17:25	a specific agenda this is a work session
2:17:30	it's we don't have
2:17:33	any requirement to solve anything
2:17:35	tonight
2:17:37	we've had considerable discussion and we
2:17:39	have had input from the public
2:17:42	i would be comfortable
2:17:45	wrapping up for the evening after
2:17:48	thoughts from
2:17:50	the remaining commissioners
2:17:54	who would like to add to the discussion
2:18:02	commissioner henry okay so i
2:18:05	i appreciated the book
2:18:09	i appreciated the comments about the
2:18:11	word homeless
2:18:15	i don't know how
2:18:18	important it is in the city in city code
2:18:20	but i do hear
2:18:22	and i don't know if it's appropriate i
2:18:23	do hear the word houseless
2:18:25	um and and that's kind of like npr
2:18:30	uh i don't i don't know in new york yeah
2:18:34	and
2:18:34	and so i don't know if that's that's a
2:18:36	problem but that would be a way to keep
2:18:37	it
2:18:38	simple instead of that really lengthy uh
2:18:40	name that
2:18:41	she suggested
2:18:42	[Music]
2:18:46	and yes warming center that that seems
2:18:48	appropriate we
2:18:49	remember talking about that back at the
2:18:51	original uh
2:18:53	hearing last summer um
2:18:57	[Music]
2:18:59	the one individual for every 35 square
2:19:01	feet maybe we could look at that
2:19:03	um i'm not sure where that number came
2:19:05	from that comes from the state fire
2:19:07	marshal
2:19:08	marshall gotcha again i thought what was
2:19:10	your concern about that specifically
2:19:12	no just addressing a a public comment
2:19:15	and i was curious whether that came from
2:19:16	the fire marshal
2:19:18	if it came from the fire marshal it's
2:19:19	probably not really up for debate so
2:19:22	um well i mean we could it's just that
2:19:26	the you know almost all of the
2:19:30	the specific
2:19:33	conditional use standard is verbatim
2:19:36	from the state fire marshal's
2:19:37	recommendation
2:19:38	okay just the
2:19:42	couple of things that met with quite a
2:19:44	bit of
2:19:45	resistance were things that were added
2:19:48	based on some other
2:19:49	some other neighborhood agreement stuff
2:19:51	so like the crime watching
2:19:52	garbage watching stuff those those came
2:19:55	from other neighborhood agreements
2:19:57	that i had researched and found
2:20:00	so but otherwise you know the fire
2:20:02	watching
2:20:04	and all of the like safety stuff minus
2:20:07	section a all came straight out of the
2:20:11	state fire marshal's recommendation
2:20:13	okay i was kind of surprised and forgive
2:20:15	me if i missed it
2:20:16	and i and i don't want to go up into the
2:20:18	weeds here but i just want to
2:20:20	mention i was i didn't find any any
2:20:23	uh recommendation for a fire
2:20:25	extinguisher on premises
2:20:28	so that would be
2:20:33	so that would just be folded in because
2:20:36	of
2:20:36	the general fire code there was all the
2:20:40	mention of the sprinklers and everything
2:20:41	so it kind of caught my attention
2:20:43	so in addition to you know things we
2:20:46	already discussed
2:20:48	i have no additional comments
2:20:56	anyone else
2:21:02	i want to touch uh on the life safety
2:21:05	the weapons section i think mr mccartney
2:21:07	makes things very
2:21:09	useful points and i would
2:21:12	um i suspected that section was going to
2:21:16	be
2:21:17	very difficult to implement anyway due
2:21:19	to the nature of our country
2:21:21	so i i would say just
2:21:25	remove it strike it completely and
2:21:29	then 5a if we want to move ahead with
2:21:32	this i would say just take a section by
2:21:34	the way out completely
2:21:35	the weapons section and they can deal
2:21:37	with that whoever
2:21:39	operates a learning center can deal with
2:21:41	that however they
2:21:43	procedurally want to deal with it
2:21:46	i could see that working because if we
2:21:50	if we maintain the language that um
2:21:53	weapons must be confiscated that
2:21:57	it could imply that you know people
2:22:00	who are houseless are carrying weapons
2:22:03	and bringing them
2:22:04	with them and yeah
2:22:09	so so again generally at a public
2:22:12	hearing
2:22:13	we we listen and don't question
2:22:16	generally question the people speaking
2:22:18	but out of curiosity
2:22:20	that was one of the items in the
2:22:22	neighborhood
2:22:23	commitment do you still and
2:22:26	i understand it was the policy prior to
2:22:28	the neighborhood commitment do you still
2:22:30	take away weapons at night
2:22:31	absolutely yeah okay
2:22:39	i see knives and i see the
2:22:43	multi-tool things leatherman's more
2:22:45	often
2:22:46	people need knives for whatever
2:22:59	so if we take it out of the out of the
2:23:01	code it doesn't mean you can't rules
2:23:03	that are absolutely important
2:23:05	right that's okay absolutely it's part
2:23:06	of our rules so
2:23:08	great thank you
2:23:15	my only comment to that could be that we
2:23:17	state that they have to have a policy
2:23:18	regarding any
2:23:20	practice but each individual that's a
2:23:23	good idea yeah
2:23:24	each individual shelter needs to have a
2:23:30	policy
2:23:37	[Music]
2:23:45	as a commission on this so
2:23:46	[Music]
2:23:48	i vote move forward move forward
2:23:53	i would like to hear from the public
2:23:54	more
2:23:58	yes i'm happy to move forward as well
2:24:00	i'd like to hear from the
2:24:01	from staff kind of what what they might
2:24:03	come up with
2:24:04	[Music]
2:24:07	yeah i'd like to move forward and again
2:24:09	this doesn't mean that we're
2:24:11	saying this is done and that i i
2:24:14	agree moving forward with public comment
2:24:17	and input from staff would be great
2:24:21	um anyone else before
2:24:26	so so my only comment would be um
2:24:29	and i'm sorry that that commissioner
2:24:31	mitchell isn't here
2:24:33	um the difference between having 10
2:24:36	people in a shelter
2:24:37	and 35 people in a shelter is
2:24:40	exponential
2:24:41	and so um consider
2:24:47	i would ask that we all consider that
2:24:49	impact in in
2:24:51	moving forward that's like one more
2:24:54	comment and that is
2:24:55	that
2:24:58	having to get a temporary use
2:25:01	every year i think would make
2:25:04	investment in a
2:25:07	permanent location
2:25:10	impossible who's who's going to invest
2:25:13	75 000
2:25:14	building that you might not be able to
2:25:18	use next year
2:25:19	so another motivator for having a
2:25:22	conditional use is
2:25:24	that it could potentially spur
2:25:26	investment in a permanent location
2:25:29	it could also make it eligible for
2:25:31	grants that it wouldn't otherwise be
2:25:33	eligible for to correct to get the
2:25:35	location make money
2:25:46	my other comment would be to remember
2:25:48	that this
2:25:50	is not specifically regarding an
2:25:52	existing
2:25:53	warming center uh its warming centers
2:25:56	in astoria in general and i think that
2:25:59	any
2:26:00	code that we work on here should bear
2:26:03	that in mind
2:26:04	because there is every possibility that
2:26:06	this shelter might go away
2:26:08	and there will be a shelter somewhere
2:26:10	else that will have its own unique
2:26:12	challenges and situations and so on so
2:26:14	again what we are discussing here
2:26:17	is code four an emergency shelter
2:26:21	regardless of what people want to call
2:26:23	it
2:26:25	but it is important remember this is
2:26:28	writing code it is not specific to any
2:26:31	existing
2:26:32	warning center in that story
2:26:36	oh i'm i'm what direction
2:26:42	well i think i think we've got a lot of
2:26:45	good comments here and i i'd be glad to
2:26:48	uh
2:26:49	to work with with uh mr moore
2:26:52	since uh it's on his computer
2:26:55	and uh and um
2:26:59	incorporate the changes that were
2:27:02	suggested
2:27:02	tonight and then come back to you
2:27:06	with the new draft in march
2:27:10	not necessarily for a public hearing but
2:27:13	for
2:27:13	um but to
2:27:17	maybe take you know get take the pulse
2:27:20	of the community
2:27:21	so another work session that we might
2:27:23	advertise a little more so
2:27:25	yeah yeah and um
2:27:28	because if we do if we do go forward
2:27:31	with this with a change i think we need
2:27:33	to notify
2:27:34	um a city-wide change we need to notify
2:27:37	dlcd
2:27:39	tell the state we're going to do it 35
2:27:41	days in advance or something
2:27:43	but um i think you know i think you
2:27:45	could have a clean copy by
2:27:47	by uh you know three weeks before your
2:27:50	next
2:27:50	uh next meeting advertise it every time
2:27:56	can we have other things on the agenda
2:27:58	tonight
2:27:59	um yeah there's a couple of a couple of
2:28:02	items
2:28:03	i'd like to see this be it some more
2:28:05	obsession
2:28:07	i i was going to say to clarify i'd like
2:28:08	to have it as a work session
2:28:11	okay you want to make a session on that
2:28:13	on that evening or
2:28:14	our separate date i would say do it the
2:28:17	first
2:28:19	first first meeting in april first
2:28:21	meeting in april
2:28:22	if it's a work session though we won't
2:28:25	be taking public comment will we
2:28:27	well we have that option okay just like
2:28:30	we did tonight but i'm just wondering if
2:28:32	we'll get
2:28:33	many people we didn't get very many
2:28:35	tonight so
2:28:36	i really would like to hear from the
2:28:40	public just to
2:28:42	better make up my own mind so
2:28:47	when it's worth we could do the maybe
2:28:49	the april
2:28:50	earlier meeting and
2:28:54	uh just for just to review here i just
2:28:56	want to
2:28:57	pull this close up and show you where
2:28:59	the r3 areas are
2:29:01	um
2:29:05	uh all all of this this kind of
2:29:08	avocado color is r3
2:29:12	down along here
2:29:15	wrapping around around town
2:29:19	that point there all of this all of this
2:29:22	area it's our
2:29:26	best version different color yeah that's
2:29:29	our
2:29:29	sr2 so so our r3
2:29:32	is this darker color
2:29:36	all of this then the c3 zones
2:29:40	are the pink that go around and
2:29:43	down in here down all the way to the
2:29:46	hosp
2:29:47	to the high school
2:29:51	so
2:29:54	okay okay great
2:29:59	well if we have nothing else to add do i
2:30:01	have any staff reports
2:30:02	oh i'm sorry thank you commissioner
2:30:06	eason
2:30:09	uh reporter yeah or anything
2:30:13	updates uh not really i
2:30:16	you know thank you i don't know how long
2:30:19	i'm going to be here
2:30:20	but
2:30:24	we'll see okay
2:30:28	we do have another public comment period
2:30:31	does anybody
2:30:32	want to comment or adjourn